Gun in parking lot of chemical company?

[timf79]

Since the passing of the "parking lot" law employers can no longer prohibit employees form leaving a concealed gun in their private vehicle.
I know that there are exceptions such as chemical companies.
From my understanding you need to be a CHL holder to be allowed to leave your gun in the vehicle.
But Texas Labor code 52.061 - .062 talks about public accisble and secured area, this really confuses me.

The reason I ask is, that my employer is a chemical company and they state that you are not allowed to kee p a firearm in your vehicle on comapny premises. After me asking about the law, I got the answer that the law states the employer can not forbid a CHL holder to leave a firearm in their vehicle IF the parking lot IS secured.
They way I read the law it is the other way around, any opinions would be appreciated.

There is plenty of street parking (which would allow anyone to leave a firearm in their vehicle), but it is more a matter of principle to me.

 

[txinvestigator]

The "parking lot" law address employers, as you pointed out. It places no priviledge, grants no permisisions, to employees. The key here is what can you do if they ARE in violation of the law? You should consult with an attorney versed in labor law.


I wish you luck.

 

[Bithabus]

	S.B. No. 321

	AN ACT
	relating to an employee's transportation and storage of certain
	firearms or ammunition while on certain property owned or
	controlled by the employee's employer.
	BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
	SECTION 1. Chapter 52, Labor Code, is amended by adding
	Subchapter G to read as follows:
	SUBCHAPTERG.RESTRICTIONS ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE
	TRANSPORTATION OR STORAGE OF CERTAIN FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION
	Sec.52.061.RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO
	OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer
	may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a
	concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
	who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully
	possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or
	ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked,
	privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or
	other parking area the employer provides for employees.
	Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:
	(1)authorize a person who holds a license to carry a
	concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
	who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully
	possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any
	property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is
	prohibited by state or federal law; or
	(2) apply to:
	(A)a vehicle owned or leased by a public or
	private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of
	the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to
	transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the
	employee's duties;
	(B) a school district;
	(C)an open-enrollment charter school, as
	defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
	(D)a private school, as defined by Section
	22.081, Education Code;
	(E)property owned or controlled by a person,
	other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil,
	gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting
	the possession of firearms on the property; or
	(F)property owned or leased by a chemical
	manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under
	Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary
	business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or
	transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials,
	except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a
	concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
	and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by
	law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a
	parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer
	provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted
	area:
	(i) that contains the physical plant;
	(ii) that is not open to the public; and
	(iii)the ingress into which is constantly
	monitored by security personnel.
	(b)Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from
	prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed
	handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who
	otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm
	the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the
	premises of the employer's business. In this subsection,
	"premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal
	Code.
	Sec.52.063.IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. (a)Except in
	cases of gross negligence, a public or private employer, or the
	employer's principal, officer, director, employee, or agent, is not
	liable in a civil action for personal injury, death, property
	damage, or any other damages resulting from or arising out of an
	occurrence involving a firearm or ammunition that the employer is
	required to allow on the employer's property under this subchapter.
	(b)The presence of a firearm or ammunition on an employer's
	property under the authority of this subchapter does not by itself
	constitute a failure by the employer to provide a safe workplace.
	(c)For purposes of this section, a public or private
	employer, or the employer's principal, officer, director,
	employee, or agent, does not have a duty:
	(1) to patrol, inspect, or secure:
	(A)any parking lot, parking garage, or other
	parking area the employer provides for employees; or
	(B)any privately owned motor vehicle located in
	a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area described by
	Paragraph (A); or
	(2)to investigate, confirm, or determine an
	employee's compliance with laws related to the ownership or
	possession of a firearm or ammunition or the transportation and
	storage of a firearm or ammunition.
	Sec.52.064.CONSTRUCTION OF PROVISION RELATING TO IMMUNITY
	FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. Section 52.063 does not limit or alter the
	personal liability of:
	(1)an individual who causes harm or injury by using a
	firearm or ammunition;
	(2)an individual who aids, assists, or encourages
	another individual to cause harm or injury by using a firearm or
	ammunition; or
	(3)an employee who transports or stores a firearm or
	ammunition on the property of the employee's employer but who fails
	to comply with the requirements of Section 52.061.
	SECTION 2. Section 411.203, Government Code, is amended to
	read as follows:
	Sec. 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS. This subchapter does
	not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private
	employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter
	from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business.
	In this section, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section
	46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.
	SECTION 3. The change in law made by this Act applies only
	to a cause of action that accrues on or after the effective date of
	this Act. A cause of action that accrues before that date is
	governed by the law as it existed immediately before the effective
	date of this Act, and that law is continued in effect for that
	purpose.
	SECTION 4. This Act takes effect September 1, 2011.

 

[Bithabus]

Is the primary business of your location the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials? If not then your employer can't prohibit you from leaving your gun in your vehicle. If this does describe the primary function of your workplace, and you are a CHL holder, and the parking area is outside of a secure area which contains the physical plant, and is not open to the public, and is constantly monitored by security, then your employer can't prohibit you from leaving your gun in your vehicle.

 

[tmd11111]

Your employer might not be able to prohibit you from having a firearm in your vehicle but they can terminate your services without cause as well.

 

[Mikewood]

Is your parking space "behind the wire"? If you drive in and park without fuss then you are in a public parking lot and are GTG. If you drive up to a gate and the gate opens and you drive into the "secured are of the plant" then no it's not ok.
But they can fire you without cause. So hide it good!!! Not under the seat or under the center console removablable "tub".

 

[timf79]

The parking spot is open to public.
My point is that I supposely a lawyer reviewed the status and stated that they can prohibit it, because the there is NO security guard and no fence.
So basically the other way around.
And I understood what you understood from the law as well.

Thanks for confirming.

And actually I don't think they are allowed to search my vehicle without my consent.

 

[txinvestigator]

And actually I don't think they are allowed to search my vehicle without my consent.

If you refuse consent you can be terminated.

 

[Mikewood]

If you refuse consent you can be terminated.

Terminated... With extreme prejudice.
(that means they send Martin Sheen after you and not the old fat one either!)
Better practice up on your Dialect Poems by D.H. Lawrence.

 

[timf79]

If you refuse consent you can be terminated.

Actually not.
They can only do this if you signed that they can look into your vehicle.
Most employers have this in their terms, mine does not.
Why?
Well, probably because the same genius lawyer that false read the parking lot law worked on the employee guidelines...

 

[txinvestigator]

Actually not.
They can only do this if you signed that they can look into your vehicle.
Most employers have this in their terms, mine does not.
Why?
Well, probably because the same genius lawyer that false read the parking lot law worked on the employee guidelines...

Actually, yes. Texas is an At Will state, and they can terminate you for anything except those federally protected reasons.

 

[Texan2]

Actually, yes. Texas is an At Will state, and they can terminate you for anything except those federally protected reasons.

^^^This

 

[michael e]

The few I have been to actually have the correct 30.06 signs up, and you have to enter into the plant to park.

 

[Bithabus]

Actually not.
They can only do this if you signed that they can look into your vehicle.
Most employers have this in their terms, mine does not.
Why?
Well, probably because the same genius lawyer that false read the parking lot law worked on the employee guidelines...

They can fire you for almost any reason. Why do you think their lawyer incorrectly read the law? Read it for yourself, I posted it above. You work at a chemical plant and there is no security.

 

[timf79]

Actually, yes. Texas is an At Will state, and they can terminate you for anything except those federally protected reasons.

This is correct, but IF an employeer gives you a reason of termination and that reason is not justified you can take them to court.
So yes legally it is an At Will state, but the employeer still needs to provide a reason. Otherwise you can take your employer to court and unless the employer ahs their act together courts are likely to rule in favor of the (former) employee.

 

[timf79]

They can fire you for almost any reason. Why do you think their lawyer incorrectly read the law? Read it for yourself, I posted it above. You work at a chemical plant and there is no security.

This is not correct, legally there is a difference between an employer firing, terminating and laying someone off. For an employer to fire someone there needs to be good reason.
I read the law myself and the way I understood it, is that a CHL holder can not be forbidden to carry a firearm locked in the vehicle that is parked on a unsecured outside public accesible parking lot.

 

[Bithabus]

This is not correct, legally there is a difference between an employer firing, terminating and laying someone off. For an employer to fire someone there needs to be good reason.
I read the law myself and the way I understood it, is that a CHL holder can not be forbidden to carry a firearm locked in the vehicle that is parked on a unsecured outside public accesible parking lot.

Nope.

 

[TheDan]

They could say you were fired because they could smell your butt from 10ft away.

 

[txinvestigator]

This is not correct, legally there is a difference between an employer firing, terminating and laying someone off. For an employer to fire someone there needs to be good reason.

That is not accurate. There is no law requiring an employer to have "good reason" or any reason to fire (terminate means the same thing).
If an employer fires a person for a reason not connected to bad job performance or conduct, the person is likely to be awarded unemployment, but nothing prevents an employer from firing you for no reason at all.

I read the law myself and the way I understood it, is that a CHL holder can not be forbidden to carry a firearm locked in the vehicle that is parked on a unsecured outside public accesible parking lot.

And if he does fire you? -------------?

 

[hubby lubby]

Original poster said he thought non-CHL holders cannot store their gun in their vehicle.

I've not come across this before and assuming it is true, what does a non-CHL do when he reaches his destination? Seems to me non-CHLs can store their gun in their car.

I just want to clear this up.