Jumping through hoops for packing 'heat' in Israel

[DougC]

TBN Israel's Yair Pinto reports on the Israel-Hamas War. Pinto shares why he and over 300,000 other Israeli citizens have applied to carry a personal firearm. In the wake of October 7th and the Israel-Hamas War.

I have watched a number of videos from the channel covering the fighting in Gaza. They are informative as to what and where events are happing on the ground. Pretty much straight forward about the combat action.

Notice how his first shot in video he has to rack the slide to chamber a round. This has been a topic on this forum with much discussion/comment; carrying with a round in the chamber. IMO one needs to train with a round in the chamber. One never knows if they will have a free/available hand to rack the slide. And racking the slide using iron red dot sight to catch on something with one hand is not for me. Second point is that civilians still have to ask permission from government to keep/bear arms as mentioned on channel and attend mandatory training. In later part of video he explains that gun ownership is a privilege not a right and shows current law who can have a gun. Israel uses a balancing test to determine if one can get a gun.

What gets me is the long history of Israel before/after statehood being attacked from inside/outside and not having all lawful and responsible citizens armed if they so desired.






Are those blue bonnet flowers in park he is walking through?

 

[leVieux]

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Almost everyone I know ‘’supports’’ Israel and the Israeli’s rights to defend themselves.

Israel is an ‘’outpost of civilization’’ in a hostile part of the World.

But, WHY does their government want them disarmed in the midst of great threats from so many ?

This makes ZERO sense, and was not always the case.

Why don’t they change their law and institute a ‘’constitutional carry’’ scheme for all Citizens, instead of the slow & complex licensing system described here ? ?

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[Eli]

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Almost everyone I know ‘’supports’’ Israel and the Israeli’s rights to defend themselves.

Israel is an ‘’outpost of civilization’’ in a hostile part of the World.

But, WHY does their government want them disarmed in the midst of great threats from so many ?

This makes ZERO sense, and was not always the case.

Why don’t they change their law and institute a ‘’constitutional carry’’ scheme for all Citizens, instead of the slow & complex licensing system described here ? ?

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Because leftists hijacked the government there in 1948, and have largely ruled with an iron fist since. Bibi's 'judicial reforms' that 'threatened democracy' were actually breaking a three-quarter-century leftist monopoly: the lower court judges are appointed by higher court judges and higher court judges are elected by lower court judges, and just can legally rules based on 'feelings' and such.

Eli

 

[leVieux]

Because leftists hijacked the government there in 1948, and have largely ruled with an iron fist since. Bibi's 'judicial reforms' that 'threatened democracy' were actually breaking a three-quarter-century leftist monopoly: the lower court judges are appointed by higher court judges and higher court judges are elected by lower court judges, and just can legally rules based on 'feelings' and such.

Eli

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Thank you.

I didn’t know some of that.

I thought that after the ‘’Warsaw Ghetto’’, Jews would be in favor of a RTK&BA. Many of the Jews I’ve known across the South were pretty conservative & reasonable.

I always admired Israelis, especially the IDF personnel we cared for at Texas Medical Center. They all were so practical and polite. In 1970’s Houston, the saying was ‘’Never pick up a hitchhiker; unless they are IDF’’. We could always tell them by their haircuts and the little light tan duffle bags they all carried.

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[Double Naught Spy]

Notice how his first shot in video he has to rack the slide to chamber a round. This has been a topic on this forum with much discussion/comment; carrying with a round in the chamber. IMO one needs to train with a round in the chamber. One never knows if they will have a free/available hand to rack the slide.

Cool video of Israeli soldier unable to get his pistol in the fight, trying to rack the slide multiple times unemcumbered because a Good Sam has wrestled the attacker away and the soldier still can't get his shift together.



Yes, it has been the topic of countless discussions, but so many of the Bubbas and Fudds and what have you think it is just so darned cool to carry without round in the chamber. Just look how cool they look and how fast their hands move when you watch the drills with a line of soldiers drawing, racking the slide, and firing. It is amazing showmanship and the opposition is always impressed and threatened by it, until it goes completely wrong and one looks the fool.

That the Israeli soldier had to work at clearing his self-induced malfunction multiple times, this highly trained Israeli soldier (we all know they are super duper highly trained and competent because they have to be) had an issue is obviously just a one-off, LOL.

The reality is that the Israeli's are no better or worse than anyone else. I had a class with Ken Hackathorn several years ago and he spoke of training soldiers in Israel. His take them wasn't that they were amazingly good, but their opposition was just so pathetic (sort of like what we encountered in the Gulf Wars). The empty chamber isn't because they are so highly skilled, just the opposite. It is because their ranks are full of conscripted everyday Joe's. Empty chambers are a safety measure to all the troops to remain armed, but without NDs. In America, when we do allow our soldiers to have weapons, often, they are not loaded or are down loaded.

 

[leVieux]

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Yes,

and,

that’s why I don’t want any two-hands-to-draw holster, either.

I caution everyone that those really lightweight nylon ‘’fishing shirts’’ can seriously inhibit drawing of a weapon.

I learned this the non-easy way.

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[benenglish]

Empty chambers are a safety measure to all the troops to remain armed, but without NDs.

Given their fearsome reputation, seeing their training doctrine of carrying with an empty chamber has always struck me as pretty much the definition of "cognitive dissonance."

 

[benenglish]

I caution everyone that those really lightweight nylon ‘’fishing shirts’’ can seriously inhibit drawing of a weapon.

I've known people to sew a small weight into the hem of those shirts to provide a mass that can be easily flicked out of the way.

I hear that in the shooting sports that require drawing from concealment competitors often wear an unzipped photographer's vest with a roll of coins in the front pocket. Smack that to the side during a reasonably quick draw and any fabric that could get in the way will be out of the picture for long enough to complete the draw.

 

[leVieux]

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Historical note for the young folks here:

Back during the dinosaur era, when I was young & skinny; we did have a habit of carrying our revolvers with the hammer on an empty cylinder chamber.

Reason was that, before modern ‘’transfer bar’’ revolvers, the firing pins on many were made onto the hammer; of both single & double action revolvers. Those could fire if dropped and fell hammer-down, causing a primer strike & discharge.

I heard many tales of this actually happening.

During the same era, many experienced military folks carried their 1911’s cocked, thumb safety-off, depending on the ‘’backstrtap’’ safety to prevent AD’s. While I never did this personally, I knew many competent folks who did. And many of them carried w/o holster, either ‘’Mexican carry’’ or through the belt only.

In fact, some famous characters even removed parts or all of their 1911’s trigger guards.

Even today, if I carry a 1911, it is ‘’cocked & locked’’, meaning a round chambered, cocked, thumb safety ‘’on’’.

Remember, like Dad & Uncles taught me: ’’The only real SAFETY is between your ears!’’

As today’s Dan Bongino frequently reminds us: Rule #1 is: ‘’DON’T GET DEAD!’’

leVieux

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[Eli]

The reality is that the Israeli's are no better or worse than anyone else. I had a class with Ken Hackathorn several years ago and he spoke of training soldiers in Israel. His take them wasn't that they were amazingly good, but their opposition was just so pathetic (sort of like what we encountered in the Gulf Wars). The empty chamber isn't because they are so highly skilled, just the opposite. It is because their ranks are full of conscripted everyday Joe's. Empty chambers are a safety measure to all the troops to remain armed, but without NDs. In America, when we do allow our soldiers to have weapons, often, they are not loaded or are down loaded.

Believe it or not, it's only been in recent years that the Israeli Government allowed a loaded magazine in any carried firearm - in past years, you had to insert a magazine and cycle the slide/bolt (as applicable) before you could join the fight!

As an aside, I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain to my fellow pro-gun Jews that the Israelis really aren't that good, that the arabs are just that bad.

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Historical note for the young folks here:

Back during the dinosaur era, when I was young & skinny; we did have a habit of carrying our revolvers with the hammer on an empty cylinder chamber.

Reason was that, before modern ‘’transfer bar’’ revolvers, the firing pins on many were made onto the hammer; of both single & double action revolvers. Those could fire if dropped and fell hammer-down, causing a primer strike & discharge.

I heard many tales of this actually happening.

During the same era, many experienced military folks carried their 1911’s cocked, thumb safety-off, depending on the ‘’backstrtap’’ safety to prevent AD’s. While I never did this personally, I knew many competent folks who did. And many of them carried w/o holster, either ‘’Mexican carry’’ or through the belt only.

In fact, some famous characters even removed parts or all of their 1911’s trigger guards.

Even today, if I carry a 1911, it is ‘’cocked & locked’’, meaning a round chambered, cocked, thumb safety ‘’on’’.

Remember, like Dad & Uncles taught me: ’’The only real SAFETY is between your ears!’’

As today’s Dan Bongino frequently reminds us: Rule #1 is: ‘’DON’T GET DEAD!’’

leVieux

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The proper way to carry a 1911 'back in the day' was with the hammer down on a round!

Eli

 

[seeker_two]

The proper way to carry a 1911 'back in the day' was with the hammer down on a round!

Eli

That's what the half-cock position was for. It kept the hammer off the pin and still allowed for the thumb to work. Nowadays, with the extra-large beavertails, that's not as practical anymore.

 

[leVieux]

That's what the half-cock position was for. It kept the hammer off the pin and still allowed for the thumb to work. Nowadays, with the extra-large beavertails, that's not as practical anymore.

Correct