Load development and wind

[Younggun]

I used to wait for near perfect weather for load development, but over time I’ve reached the point that unless it’s gusting and really bad I just shoot and judge the load off vertical spread, mostly ignoring the windage. It’s always the least controllable variable anyways.


What’s your opinion? Is horizontal spread important enough to wait for the best possible shooting conditions or is the vertical spread good enough with horizontal stringing something you can ignore in order to get out and get it done?

 

[paknheat]

Good point for a discussion. With the weather being kinda crappy here in my area, I think I would not be doing any loading today because of the high humidity.

Wind is kinda stiff but not too bad. If I had it in mind to go shoot today to check out a new load in a rifle I know to be accurate I probably would do it, as I’m only going to shoot it at 100 yards. I don’t believe that the wind would be too problematic at that range.

I do wait for those pretty days to do the actual ammunition loading though.

YMMV as always.

Damn good topic to bring up.


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[Txmark]

In the words of one of the older shooters, “ train like you fight, the weather conditions are never going to be on your favor when you need them “


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[Younggun]

In the words of one of the older shooters, “ train like you fight, the weather conditions are never going to be on your favor when you need them “


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I’m not talking about training. I’m talking about load development and testing.

 

[Vaquero]

I think the horizontal stringing is less of an issue than vertical, as op suggests.
But it shouldn't be extreme inside of 300 yds, if steady crosswind.
Those gusts up to 30 mph can make you pack up and go home though.

 

[Dawico]

A cross wind isn't an issue during load development at 100 yards (or 300 even) unless it is blowing you around. Your body movement has way more effect than the effect of the wind on the bullet at these shorter ranges.

If I can see my reticle moving horizontally while shooting then I know it's affecting group size. It's usually not an issue though and I don't ignore horizontal dispersion when measuring groups. The group is what it is.

 

[Younggun]

A cross wind isn't an issue during load development at 100 yards (or 300 even) unless it is blowing you around. Your body movement has way more effect than the effect of the wind on the bullet at these shorter ranges.

If I can see my reticle moving horizontally while shooting then I know it's affecting group size. It's usually not an issue though and I don't ignore horizontal dispersion when measuring groups. The group is what it is.

For 140gr SST a15mph crosswind can move the bullet 1”, 5mph move it .34”. So that leave a good bit of room for dispersion if winds are 5-15mph.

With a .223 it’s and 60gr VMax it’s more like 1” difference between 5 and 15mpg.

 

[Dawico]

For 140gr SST a15mph crosswind can move the bullet 1”, 5mph move it .34”. So that leave a good bit of room for dispersion if winds are 5-15mph.

With a .223 it’s and 60gr VMax it’s more like 1” difference between 5 and 15mpg.

If that wind is fairly consistent then that still is essentially zero and becomes a point of impact issue.

If it's gusty then you may see a difference but ultimately a crosswind will move you more than it'll move the bullet.

I know most testing methods weigh much more heavily on vertical spread compared to horizontal and the science seems to back it. I just don't like completely ignoring the horizontal spread.

I agree with testing when conditions are better but training when they're worse.

 

[Younggun]

If that wind is fairly consistent then that still is essentially zero and becomes a point of impact issue.

If it's gusty then you may see a difference but ultimately a crosswind will move you more than it'll move the bullet.

I know most testing methods weigh much more heavily on vertical spread compared to horizontal and the science seems to back it. I just don't like completely ignoring the horizontal spread.

I agree with testing when conditions are better but training when they're worse.

I guess it depends on the locations too.

For me it seems that a lot of times I will have the wind shift from a full on crosswind to my back, and back again during any given hour of shooting time.

I used to wait for a day with calm or at least steady winds but it seems like that’s maybe once a month for days I’m actually able to get out.

I’ve never really noticed the wind moving me, especially shooting from my old bench (that I need to move or rebuild). It was 4” posts set in cement, and I shoot fairly heavy rifles for everything from targets to hunting. On the flimsy folding table I used last time I’m sure it would wobble. But when I’m set up the way I like I’ve never noticed the wind causing any movement in the crosshairs. And until recently I did all my load testing at 200 yards. Neighbors messed that up for me, moving in and building their stupid house.


For practice though, I completely agree it’s good to get out in those less than ideal conditions. Guessing/reading the wind is the hardest thing to learn.

I try to wait for the best conditions possible to zero a rifle. Or I’ll at least go out on a good day after an initial zero to check the windage. I’ve had a few cases where it’s half and inch or an inch left or right due to wind.

 

[Mike_from_Texas]

What arranges are you trying to proficient at?

One thing is for sure, gravity is constant, wind is not.


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[robertc1024]

I wait for calm days & measure the entire 5 shot group size. I guess that's more my comfort zone than anything.

 

[Vaquero]

I wait for calm days & measure the entire 5 shot group size. I guess that's more my comfort zone than anything.

That's needed data for adjusting for windage and elevation.
Obvious statement on my part.

 

[Younggun]

What arranges are you trying to proficient at?

One thing is for sure, gravity is constant, wind is not.


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Not about being proficient at a given range. It’s about deciding if you want to use 40gr of powder, 40.5, or 41. Seat to 2.090 or 2.080 with a .010 jump, etc.

Gravity being a constant is why I’ve come to give far more credence to vertical spread than horizontal. And time has me leaning more towards testing loads when I otherwise wouldn’t have due to wind. If there’s variable winds and I have 2 groups, one being 1.25 MOA with a .5” vertical spread, the other being 1.05” with a 1” vertical spread I’m going to ignore the horizontal spread in the first group even though the overall group size is larger. Mostly because I’ve never had a bad load show only a horizontal deviation.

This gives me far more opportunities to test new loads and cull out bad ones.

 

[Mike_from_Texas]

Not about being proficient at a given range. It’s about deciding if you want to use 40gr of powder, 40.5, or 41. Seat to 2.090 or 2.080 with a .010 jump, etc.

Gravity being a constant is why I’ve come to give far more credence to vertical spread than horizontal. And time has me leaning more towards testing loads when I otherwise wouldn’t have due to wind. If there’s variable winds and I have 2 groups, one being 1.25 MOA with a .5” vertical spread, the other being 1.05” with a 1” vertical spread I’m going to ignore the horizontal spread in the first group even though the overall group size is larger. Mostly because I’ve never had a bad load show only a horizontal deviation.

This gives me far more opportunities to test new loads and cull out bad ones.

Understood.


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[ZX9RCAM]

Smooth seas don't make a good sailor....

 

[Younggun]

I must have been really unclear in the initial post or something.

 

[35 Whelen]

Unless it's ridiculously windy or I'm shooting a revolver or rifle chambered in a revolver cartridge at 100 yds., I don't worry about the wind. My 100 and 200 yd. target stands are set up on the side of a draw, and I have to shoot across the draw, so the wind does weird things.

 

[FireInTheWire]

I must have been really unclear in the initial post or something.

 

[jmohme]

I would think that the main focus in testing loads would be on the vertical, but once that is done, I would also want to know what loads perform better than others in windy conditions. At the very least, how each load does react in crosswinds.

But I don't reload, so I may just be full of crap.