M-16: A Bureaucratic Horror Story Why the rifles jammed

[DougC]

From The Atlantic magazine June 1981.

Some of of us seasoned citizens might recall the really bad initial problems with fielding the M-16 in Vietnam. I recall arriving in-country to join the 5th Marines, 1s Marine Division in 1967 and told very clearly not to say anything bad about the rifle as a new platoon leader. We had not heard of any problems with the rifle before leaving for Vietnam as for the most part we still used the M-14 in stateside units from 1965-67. At one point early in my training I used the M-1 Grand. After a few months my initial M-16 issue was replaced with a model with chrome chamber and bird-cage flash suppressor. My platoons did not experience the jamming problems explained in the article as cleaning supplies and attention to cleaning the rifle often took care of it before it became a problem.

And from YouTube channel 'Forgotten Weapons';

 

[MTA]

Interesting read. Seems like the army ordnance corps screwed over every swinging American dick in Vietnam

 

[Coop45]

From The Atlantic magazine June 1981.

Some of of us seasoned citizens might recall the really bad initial problems with fielding the M-16 in Vietnam. I recall arriving in-country to join the 5th Marines, 1s Marine Division in 1967 and told very clearly not to say anything bad about the rifle as a new platoon leader. We had not heard of any problems with the rifle before leaving for Vietnam as for the most part we still used the M-14 in stateside units from 1965-67. At one point early in my training I used the M-1 Grand. After a few months my initial M-16 issue was replaced with a model with chrome chamber and bird-cage flash suppressor. My platoons did not experience the jamming problems explained in the article as cleaning supplies and attention to cleaning the rifle often took care of it before it became a problem.

And from YouTube channel 'Forgotten Weapons';

The 3rd Marines I went to in July 67 had awful trouble with their M-16's. in the Hill Fights. Bad enough that they had been taken back to Okinawa to regroup. My platoon upon arrival was two seven man squads. New rifles with the chrome chamber were going out with us replacements. Hope you missed Hue.

 

[Texasjack]

Robert McNamara was Secretary of Defense under Kennedy and Johnson and probably killed more GIs than the Viet Cong, the NVA, and malaria combined. He was a "genius" that planned to make the war cost-effective, and 5.56 was cheaper than 7.62. Under normal circumstances, the Pentagon doesn't need help in making bad decisions, but under his leadership (and total disregard for anyone else's opinion) they managed to do wrong things at a blistering pace.

 

[Axxe55]

If you look at the history of the M16, there were many different factors in play at once that led to the problems it faces in combat. Any one of them by themselves was bad, but taken together, it created a colossal failure of the rifle.

The design was almost flawless, but when they got away from the original design and the components that were used to make it a fine rifle, that was the start of the snowball rolling downhill. They did eventually "correct" the defects, but not before many lives were lost in that time.

 

[kenboyles72]

If you look at the history of the M16, there were many different factors in play at once that led to the problems it faces in combat. Any one of them by themselves was bad, but taken together, it created a colossal failure of the rifle.

The design was almost flawless, but when they got away from the original design and the components that were used to make it a fine rifle, that was the start of the snowball rolling downhill. They did eventually "correct" the defects, but not before many lives were lost in that time.

Exactly, the military cut corners to cut the cost, which cost them more in the end. The original design, while not flawless, was pretty damn close and way ahead of it's time.

 

[DougC]

The 3rd Marines I went to in July 67 had awful trouble with their M-16's. in the Hill Fights. Bad enough that they had been taken back to Okinawa to regroup. My platoon upon arrival was two seven man squads. New rifles with the chrome chamber were going out with us replacements. Hope you missed Hue.

No such luck missing out on Operation Hue City. My battalion suffered several officer's as casualties so I was reassigned for two weeks to Fox Co, 2/5. Most of the worst fighting was over by the time I got there.

 

[zackmars]

The M16 was not entirely blameless, the Edgewater buffer was completely ineffective, and Colt was not doing a great job at properly reaming chambers.

US Ord's decision to use the incorrect powder, which was out of spec even for the caliber it was originally meant for turned a lot of "a issues" into "the issue".

SA became the scariest thing on earth, a government agency trying to justify its existence.

 

[V-Tach]

The Forward Assist is no longer necessary..........

 

[Coop45]

No such luck missing out on Operation Hue City. My battalion suffered several officer's as casualties so I was reassigned for two weeks to Fox Co, 2/5. Most of the worst fighting was over by the time I got there.

We were pretty thin in May, but they were sending people to the 5th. I was
lucky, arrived after Hill Fights and left before Dewey Canyon.

 

[Coop45]

No such luck missing out on Operation Hue City. My battalion suffered several officer's as casualties so I was reassigned for two weeks to Fox Co, 2/5. Most of the worst fighting was over by the time I got there.

The before and after of Hue was unbelievable.

 

[leVieux]

We called the "black rifles" "Stoners" and HATED them.

leVieux

 

[Mad John]

We called the "black rifles" "Stoners" and HATED them.

leVieux

Because only "Stoners" liked them...lol

 

[Mad John]

I enlisted in the Navy in February 1970 because I did not want to be "sniper bait" and my Draft # was "4" The Government had my number any way and being stupid I ended up on River Patrol at Quang Tri. However the Navy had some options and I dearly disliked that .22 caliber bean shooter. We had M-14s and M1 Garand rifles available. I chose the M1D Garand. I was laughed at for having an 8 shot rifle. I love the Garand still do (I got my first one for my 12th birthday) I grew up with it and a 1911. When laughed at I would just smile and simply explain that you do not merely wound Charlie with a .30-06! Chances were that he wouldn't be able to return fire!

 

[DougC]

Here is a video interview of Eugene Stoner who confirms the problems created rushing it into combat and the change in powder. From INSTMILTECH FILMS YouTube channel.

 

[avvidclif]

Remember "Made by Mattel, It's swell"????

 

[TipBledsoe]

God bless our Vietnam Veterans. Thank you all for your service.

 

[Mad John]

God bless our Vietnam Veterans. Thank you all for your service.

I hated that plastic .22 caliber bean shooter! I had to pay for one after smashing it against the gun tub and throwing it in the river.
Nothing but a piss-ant hose!
The M14 was so much better ... BUT the M1 was a real beast!
Pop a zip with a .30-06 ... game over! Sure it was just 8 shot clips but if you lined up Charlie you could get more than one... at a distance too!
An M1D NM rifle could and would get the job done... No More poke and hope... or spray and hope for the best?
I learned to aim for anything wearing brown leather.
Now ,,, A TWIN .50 M2 that was a serious mother!

 

[Mad John]

God bless our Vietnam Veterans. Thank you all for your service.

I humbly.... Thank You!
I was there.... sometimes I still am!
Witnessing what is happening to OUR USA takes me back to that "dark Place" I do not wish ANYONE to see, especially the young people in our Homes. Fear and facing "The Reaper" for your own mortality at hand IS TRULY being scared.
John

 

[IndyDave1776]

Robert McNamara was Secretary of Defense under Kennedy and Johnson and probably killed more GIs than the Viet Cong, the NVA, and malaria combined. He was a "genius" that planned to make the war cost-effective, and 5.56 was cheaper than 7.62. Under normal circumstances, the Pentagon doesn't need help in making bad decisions, but under his leadership (and total disregard for anyone else's opinion) they managed to do wrong things at a blistering pace.

I am satisfied that there is a special place in Hell for McNamara.