DK Firearms

Random Carry Question - Accident / Hospital

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  • Sasquatch

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    I should add:

    When you're admitted like I described above - we are inventorying *everything* that came in with you.

    Guns get recorded by make model and serial number, with whatever accessories that came in with it as well. Number of magazines, number of rounds recovered, holster, etc. Physical description also included (such as "brown colored Smith & Wesson M&P .45 caliber serial number MFP4506, 2x gray magazines, 13 .45ACP FMJ rounds no holster")

    Your wallet will be inventoried, we'll pull out all the cards, cash, pictures, etc and each will be individually recorded on the property sheet before being put back together and bagged up.

    Any monies recovered will be counted and recorded by denomination and totalled.

    Clothing will be described - the only time you're not getting clothing back is if its really bloody, or if its shredded or cut off and no longer usable - then it typically gets discarded as a biohazard.

    In our facility we had property sheets (multiple carbon copies) that got filled out, with all property itemized. The bag also had a field for itemizing the contents, and the property is also logged into a bound book maintined in the security office. All of the property inventory takes place on camera - including monies being counted, and usually with a witness that also signs off. We wanted to make sure that 1.) patients get their shit back and 2.) security or medical staff weren't accused of stealing their shit - accusations happen a lot regardless, but if its all on camera when we take inventory and when you get it back, there ain't a lot of wiggle room there. Plus there are cameras pretty much everywhere except IN the patient's rooms and the bathrooms, so we could watch people take the property bag out of the trauma bay to the nurses station or security office for inventory - and with 12-20 people on average in the bay when someone is being worked on, no one is pocketing your shit in the trauma bay.
    Texas SOT
     

    Axxe55

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    The tow company likely isn’t authorized to inventory the car. If there’s no probable cause for a search of the vehicle, LE probably ain’t going on a fishing expedition.

    Policy holder/authorized individual needs to find out where the car was towed to and recover personal items from the car. If the firearm is missing, add it to the claim and file the police report.
    I WOULD NEVER TRUST A TOW COMPANY TO TAKE INVENTORY OF THE VEHICLE
     

    cycleguy2300

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    Due to recent events I was curious if a person was carrying a firearm and was involved in a car accident where they were knocked unconscious or even coherent and had to / wanted to be transported to the hospital by ambulance what would be the protocol.
    If you were coherent but your car is totaled, declare it to the officer and let him take it? If you were unconscious would the ambulance crew find it or if the ER crew found it?
    How would you get your firearm back?
    The officer will/should attempt to get the firearm to an eligible person of your choice on scene.

    If a hand-off is impracticable, it would be submitted to evidence/safekeeping until you could retrieve it.

    That said... make sure you have the sn, get someone to LOCK it in the glovebox or other secure place and take a photo/videonof it being locked up. Notify on video the tow company ofbthe firearm and video/document who was told. They are responsible for the contents of the car once they hook-up to it.



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    cycleguy2300

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    The way I understand it, paramedics (EMTs) may not disarm you, unless your weapon poses a health hazard to you. A LEO is the one with the powers to disarm citizen.
    So before you enter the hospital, you can request that the ambulance meet up with a LEO (often by the door to the hospital) where you are disarmed.

    If you are unconscious, you cannot be held liable for being armed if EMTs wheel you in. Remember the important clause in Texas Penal Code about prohibited places (§46.03):
    "A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon ..."

    Now as far as what the LEO does with your weapons after you are disarmed and wheeled in, I have no idea. I will wait for our more experienced folks to chime in.

    EMT may not dissarm, you, but can refuse to treat if they dod not feel safe to do so.

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    Sasquatch

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    EMT may not dissarm, you, but can refuse to treat if they dod not feel safe to do so.

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    In the hospital system I work in - any trauma by violence requires us to meet the ambulance at the bay, and before the person is brought through the doors, we wand them. Its kind of security theater, because how much metal is on a gurney / in the wires, IV's, and straps they're secured with - BUT if they've got a weapon, we are likely to find it if the EMT's haven't. I personally have not found one yet, but it has happened.

    I dunno where BBL gets that EMT's may not disarm a patient - if you're being transported and require medical intervention, they're going to disarm you if they discover it, because the EMT's safety trumps the patient's right to carry at that point in time, not unlike a Terry stop in a police encounter. They aren't going to stop the ambulance on the way to the hospital and wait for a cop to come take a gun off someone who is bleeding, struggling to breath, or or otherwise requring life saving intervention. They *might* request LE meet them at the hospital if available, but if not - it'll typically fall upon hospital's security to secure the weapon until the patient can collect it. Depending on the hospital and the security staff - they may have a security officer remove the weapon and make it safe, or one of the nurses, or the EMT will do it (its the EMT's patient until they make it thru those ER doors, after all).
     

    robertc1024

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    BigPapi? That's the first one I recalled after reading the OP. I can't remember the exact details, but I remember him saying it was a positive outcome.
    Yep. I miss that guy. We share the same birthday. Gave/traded me a box of .45 ACP on the same day I used to qualify for my concealed handgun permit in a Colt gold cup I got from OIF2 (evil Bob).
     

    Southpaw

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    Clothing will be described - the only time you're not getting clothing back is if its really bloody, or if its shredded or cut off and no longer usable - then it typically gets discarded as a biohazard.

    Tell me about it, I still miss that Suicidal Tendencies T-shirt they cut off me!! Now that I think about it, I don't think I got my combat boots back either. :laughing:
     

    Tnhawk

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    The tow company likely isn’t authorized to inventory the car. If there’s no probable cause for a search of the vehicle, LE probably ain’t going on a fishing expedition.

    Policy holder/authorized individual needs to find out where the car was towed to and recover personal items from the car. If the firearm is missing, add it to the claim and file the police report.
    I don't have any recent experience with a towed vehicle, however in memphis the tow company/ storage lot would remove the contents of the vehicle and not allow the owner access to the vehicle himself.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    The tow company likely isn’t authorized to inventory the car. If there’s no probable cause for a search of the vehicle, LE probably ain’t going on a fishing expedition.

    Policy holder/authorized individual needs to find out where the car was towed to and recover personal items from the car. If the firearm is missing, add it to the claim and file the police report.
    4th Amendment says unreasonable search, hence why frisks (limited search of the outer clothing for weapons) are allowed with a very low bar of articulation.

    LE wont go on a fishing expedition, and courts all the way up to SCOTUS allow LE to inventory a towed vehicle if it is done consistent with department policy for the protection of the poersons property and not as a guise for looking for contraband, however should contraband be found its fair game since the LE had the "right to be, right to see" while the inventory was being conducted.

    My inventories are quick and to the point and as long as the items are on my body cam, they are documented.

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    striker55

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    I don't have any recent experience with a towed vehicle, however in memphis the tow company/ storage lot would remove the contents of the vehicle and not allow the owner access to the vehicle himself.
    We had our car towed with groceries in the trunk. I called the tow company to ask if I could get them. Said the lot was closed, so no. When I got the car back there was nothing in the trunk.
     

    majormadmax

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    Yep. I miss that guy. We share the same birthday. Gave/traded me a box of .45 ACP on the same day I used to qualify for my concealed handgun permit in a Colt gold cup I got from OIF2 (evil Bob).

    He and I still exchange posts about our favorite baseball teams (Cubs for him, Orioles for me) on Facebook. He posts their daily outcomes (W vs L). Unfortunately for him, this year there were far more Ls than Ws for the Cubs!
     

    lonestardiver

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    When I was on the fire department, we rarely if ever encountered a firearm while responding to an MVA. It was usually on calls to a residence or business. In most cases we’d either move the firearm with the persons permission to a location away from where we were treating the patient and let LEO know. If we did not have permission or felt unsafe we’d retreat and wait for LEO to resolve the issue. It was common to find rifles or shotguns behind doors or a handgun on a side table.

    Then there were the structure fires with rounds cooking off. SOP was to back of until the fireworks were done and we could continue fire suppression operations.
     

    scattergun6

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    Had my accident back in May, headed up to Lubbock. I wasn't carrying but had a handgun in a small duffle bag with change of clothes and a toilet kit. As they were getting ready to put me in the ambulance (my wife was already transported) I told the Fire Marshal, EMTs and I believe a DPS trooper that the bag needed to come with me, that I had a handgun in the bag, and an LTC. The young EMT asked if I would be allowed to take the handgun into the hospital, to which the Fire Marshal replied that I was legal, had an LTC, and no one needed to be concerned. The bag remained with me the entire time, except when I was in radiology. When the admin nurse came to return my drivers license she said she would just put it in my bag - I told her not to be alarmed when she saw the handgun in the side pocket. She just smiled, unzipped the pocket, dropped the DL in, and zipped it back up. I left there with no issues. Oh, and FWIW, the car was towed locally, and none of our personal property was removed. Everything was just as we left it. Good, honest folks.
     

    kenboyles72

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    The tow company likely isn’t authorized to inventory the car. If there’s no probable cause for a search of the vehicle, LE probably ain’t going on a fishing expedition.

    Policy holder/authorized individual needs to find out where the car was towed to and recover personal items from the car. If the firearm is missing, add it to the claim and file the police report.

    Well, son went up to get his things from the car, nothing was searched and nothing was missing. Son is doing ok after the wreck, he has bruised lungs, bruised knees from where they hit the dash under the steering wheel, a ruptured tympanic membrane in one ear and sore AF. Other than that, he was fine.
     

    ZX9RCAM

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    Well, son went up to get his things from the car, nothing was searched and nothing was missing. Son is doing ok after the wreck, he has bruised lungs, bruised knees from where they hit the dash under the steering wheel, a ruptured tympanic membrane in one ear and sore AF. Other than that, he was fine.
    Glad to hear he's ok.

    I had an ear drum ruptured when I was around 10 (55 years ago).
    Small patch put over it and it healed fine.
     
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