Texas Law Shield and Open Carry laws

[satx78247]

Renegade,

They will harass just as many people as the CoP, mayor/city council orders them to check.

Once DWI "checkpoints" were outlawed by court decisions, "license & registration checkpoints" were established & the LEOs went right on checking for DWI/DUID violators.

I fear that the TLS attorney is 100% correct, right up to the minute that a judge "slaps the city's hand", HARD in Austin, Houston, Dallas & (very likely) here in San Antonio.
(Mayor Taylor has been quoted, within the last week, as saying that: Our police officers will make every lawful attempt & use every available means to discourage people from carrying guns openly in our city.)

yours, satx

 

[Mreed911]

That's a fair position to take, Diesel. I don't necessarily agree with that being the mentality the police have, but I can't say I'm expecting every LE contact to be an ID check, either, post 1/1, and expect it WILL decrease.

More than anything? I'm pleased to be ABLE to openly carry and hope that everyone has the "teaching" attitude to those that object vs. the "eff you, I carry because I can!"

Seven months and counting.

 

[Mreed911]

I fear that the TLS attorney is 100% correct, right up to the minute that a judge "slaps the city's hand", HARD in Austin, Houston, Dallas & (very likely) here in San Antonio.
(Mayor Taylor has been quoted, within the last week, as saying that: Our police officers will make every lawful attempt & use every available means to discourage people from carrying guns openly in our city.)

Since Straus is from Bexar County, someone should have him talk to the Mayor.

 

[Couyon]

I don't mean to be a shit stirrer, but I understood the law the same as TLS has stated it. I'm no lawyer, so please disregard as you see fit.

Stripping away the legalese, Texas gun laws start with the basic premise that it is illegal to carry a gun on your person. Then, you add defenses to prosecution such as being a cop, having a CHL for concealed carry, etc. Now, they've added OC with a CHL. If a cop sees someone printing or is alerted to a concealed concealed carrier by an overzealous observer, the cop would detain and ask for ID. Unfortunate and annoying but generally understood. The cop can't know the gun owner is licensed to carry and thus is within his "rights" to check. I see this a the same for OC. I hope I'm wrong and likely am, but that is what I understood from the class I took and the reading I've done. Please don't call me bad names... ;(

Now, I'd like to make it very clear. I think the law sucks and the legislature had a chance to keep the cops off our backs, but chose not to. I will be among those pushing hard for real constitutional gun laws in the next session.

 

[satx78247]

Mreed911,

Inasmuch as Ivy Taylor HATES Senator Straus, because Straus is 100% against her "pet project" = The downtown streetcar project (30,000,000.oo plus & a GUARANTEED money-loser for the city forever. - Even the "pro-streetcar folks" will admit that the streetcar system will LOSE 3-5 million bucks each year!), I seriously doubt that the mayor will even happily "take a call from" Straus.

Nonetheless, I'll have an "influential friend" go see him.

yours, satx

 

[Mreed911]

I don't mean to be a shit stirrer, but I understood the law the same as TLS has stated it. I'm no lawyer, so please disregard as you see fit.

Stripping away the legalese, Texas gun laws start with the basic premise that it is illegal to carry a gun on your person. Then, you add defenses to prosecution such as being a cop, having a CHL for concealed carry, etc. Now, they've added OC with a CHL. If a cop sees someone printing or is alerted to a concealed concealed carrier by an overzealous observer, the cop would detain and ask for ID. Unfortunate and annoying but generally understood. The cop can't know the gun owner is licensed to carry and thus is within his "rights" to check. I see this a the same for OC. I hope I'm wrong and likely am, but that is what I understood from the class I took and the reading I've done. Please don't call me bad names... ;(

Now, I'd like to make it very clear. I think the law sucks and the legislature had a chance to keep the cops off our backs, but chose not to. I will be among those pushing hard for real constitutional gun laws in the next session.

Nobody should call you bad names.

One thing is clear - if this happens, it needs to be documented so our legislators have reason to fix it next session. The more I think about it, the more I think I should consider running. Problem is, I don't know where I'll live... we're definitely moving somewhere else in Texas before 2016's elections.

 

[Mreed911]

This does bring up a good point.

Assume PO walks up to OC'er and asks for ID. There are two choices:

1) Provide ID, document the contact and if possible determine what the RS was... e.g. "Here you go, why do you ask?" File a complaint afterwards.

2) Refuse to ID, which is not a crime in and of itself unless you're arrested, which likely gives the PO probable cause to arrest you under 46.02 because if you had a license you'd probably produce it to avoid arrest, then prove out a defense before/during court that you had a valid CHL.

#1 is the only reasonable approach. #1 has no negative impact on the officer during the confrontation but does afterwards, both of which hopefully get into their head that hassling OC'ers isn't worth it.

#2 just puts OC'ers in a negative light AND gives the officer RS for future stops... "well, this one time at band camp I arrested an OC'er that turned out to not be licensed!"

I suppose a 1.5 option would be to start with "are you asking or demanding, as in can I say no and walk away?" That at least sets the tone for the stop without the "am I being detained?"

Fight the actions at the administrative and governmental level. Be polite at street level, but be inquisitive - draw out the RS, reason for the stop, etc.

 

[sdismukes]

Just occurred to me... With the sensitivity LEO could, and to apparent agreement here, would have toward OC, who in their right mind and without a CHL would be so dumb as to OC? Just asking for a felony rap!

So net effect is if someone were so bold as to OC, they'd have to feel pert-much bulletproof. So pert-soon every stop-and-question becomes a waste of time. Unless the intent IS to harass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mreed911]

Just occurred to me... With the sensitivity LEO could, and to apparent agreement here, would have toward OC, who in their right mind and without a CHL would be so dumb as to OC? Just asking for a felony rap!

Class A Misdemeanor unless it's also a TABC location or PWP.

So net effect is if someone were so bold as to OC, they'd have to feel pert-much bulletproof. So pert-soon every stop-and-question becomes a waste of time. Unless the intent IS to harass.

Yep.

 

[jrbfishn]

Yeah, a few class As could get rather expensive quickly.
But you would be surprised at the number of people that have not yet realized they need a CHL to do it.

 

[Mreed911]

Yeah, a few class As could get rather expensive quickly.
But you would be surprised at the number of people that have not yet realized they need a CHL to do it.

A single Class A weapons offense is probably as bad as a felony in terms of professional licenses, jobs, rental housing, etc. Not to mention up to a year of probation, fines, court costs, attorneys fees, bail, and losing a firearm and your CHL if convicted/deferred (you know forfeiting the firearm would be a condition of deferral).

TSRA and OCT really need to help get the message out that a) it's not until Jan 1 and b) it requires a CHL, so get one NOW! Not that they're not trying, but I'd love to see a blanketed ad campaign and I'd contribute to that, specifically, if asked.

 

[jrbfishn]

Making sure everyone I talk to about it understands. And that now would be a good time to get that CHL license they have been putting off.

 

[McClintock]

A single Class A weapons offense is probably as bad as a felony in terms of professional licenses, jobs, rental housing, etc. Not to mention up to a year of probation, fines, court costs, attorneys fees, bail, and losing a firearm and your CHL if convicted/deferred (you know forfeiting the firearm would be a condition of deferral).

TSRA and OCT really need to help get the message out that a) it's not until Jan 1 and b) it requires a CHL, so get one NOW! Not that they're not trying, but I'd love to see a blanketed ad campaign and I'd contribute to that, specifically, if asked.

A huge surge in CHL applicants would be helpful now. Media disinformation includes the lie that the majority of Texans are against open carry. The media learned long ago that if statistics aren't on your side then just lie about it until you are believed.

 

[zincwarrior]

referring to the response you got:

good gosh man, is this guy for real? Then according to this TLS lawyer, everyone driving a car can be pulled over to prove they have a license to drive. Cops should just drop by your house and make sure no laws are being broken every day.

There is case law that, that reason is not sufficient. Yes it had already been tried.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Wrong about only showing CHL- PC211.205

Thank you.

 

[Polarbear6]

This does bring up a good point.

Assume PO walks up to OC'er and asks for ID. There are two choices:

1) Provide ID, document the contact and if possible determine what the RS was... e.g. "Here you go, why do you ask?" File a complaint afterwards.

2) Refuse to ID, which is not a crime in and of itself unless you're arrested, which likely gives the PO probable cause to arrest you under 46.02 because if you had a license you'd probably produce it to avoid arrest, then prove out a defense before/during court that you had a valid CHL.

#1 is the only reasonable approach. #1 has no negative impact on the officer during the confrontation but does afterwards, both of which hopefully get into their head that hassling OC'ers isn't worth it.

#2 just puts OC'ers in a negative light AND gives the officer RS for future stops... "well, this one time at band camp I arrested an OC'er that turned out to not be licensed!"

I suppose a 1.5 option would be to start with "are you asking or demanding, as in can I say no and walk away?" That at least sets the tone for the stop without the "am I being detained?"

Fight the actions at the administrative and governmental level. Be polite at street level, but be inquisitive - draw out the RS, reason for the stop, etc.

Nice job of laying that out like that. Personally, I choose option 1 without filing a complaint. Unless the officer is a dick

Thx

 

[Renegade]

This does bring up a good point.

Assume PO walks up to OC'er and asks for ID. There are two choices:

Some of you guys are so worked up over this it is amazing.

Just show your ID and do not let him even think it fazes you. The more folks he checks who do not give a shit the sooner he will be bored with it. As soon as you show any sign of getting worked up, he wins and will keep doing it.

Take ownership of the contact and start asking him questions. Do you OC? What holster you have there? Do you like it? Does it catch on your seat belt? What ammo do you use? All polite of course.

If everyone took this action, they would not get near an OC'er.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

The best way to deal with police is to juts to overwhelm them. How many hours a day do you think they can devote to ID checks? When they have checked the 10,000 person and they are legal how many more will they check?

What is worse will be security guards at malls,etc. He asks for ID you tell him to pound sand right? He then gives you 30.07. rut-row. Encounters with these cop-wannabees will be far worse, as they could ask you to do 10 pushups with ID on your back and if you say no, they say 30.07. Real cops are limited in their options....

Are you inferring a "verbal" 30.07?
Can one not at that point accept the notification & then leave?

 

[diesel1959]

Some of you guys are so worked up over this it is amazing.

Just show your ID and do not let him even think it fazes you. The more folks he checks who do not give a shit the sooner he will be bored with it. As soon as you show any sign of getting worked up, he wins and will keep doing it.

Take ownership of the contact and start asking him questions. Do you OC? What holster you have there? Do you like it? Does it catch on your seat belt? What ammo do you use? All polite of course.

If everyone took this action, they would not get near an OC'er.

agreed. are you guys listening, cuz this is good advice.

 

[diesel1959]

Are you inferring a "verbal" 30.07?
Can one not at that point accept the notification & then leave?

The moment you receive a verbal 30.07, that's when you say, "OK, I'll be leaving right now", and then do it. It's only when you refuse to leave AFTER having been given the request that there's a problem.