Semper Fidelis
New Member
Hello,
I have to react to the OP named "30 Super Carry vs. 9mm" ( https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/30-super-carry-vs-9mm.123552/ ) that like said benenglish expected "non-serious answers intended to be funny", but please take the time to read because her "will be serious answers".
As a gun designer, when you want to create a NEW gun (not a 1911’s custom), and make the best one of its kind, the first think you have to do is to choose the right ammo for it (HOW TO CHOSE AN AMMO). Then, you will decide how will have to work your new gun around this ammo. Remember, the ammo is the center of your mechanism’s world.
In the past, meaning around the 70’s the 308 was "wildcatted" a lot. How many "new" brass bottoms have a 12mm diameter ? Many ! Why ? Because it is so simple to cut an existing brass base, and most of the time the simplest way is the cheapest way too. If I do not mistake, even the 44 AutoMag is based on a 308. Wildcat ammos are fun and some are ballistically very interesting. Remember, the 223 was a wildcat. (BETWEEN CREATIVITY AND ORDER) The 222 too. The 223 was adopted by the Army, and the 222 by some sharpshooters. Witch one is the best and witch one is the cheapest ? Got it ? OK maybe not, let me explain.
Developing a new ammo is as interesting as expensive. Money is the sinews of war. Once an investor (like the Army) choose an ammunition, this one will be developed. See today the 6.8 ! All the others will stay kind of "wildcat ammo" for curious and relics enthusiasts. The army is probably the best contributor for new market. It choose a new ammo, a new weapon, it will be filmed, being in a movie, into video games and at the end some guys will enter a gun shop and asking for it. Good deal.
Some creators (I immediately think about CheyTac) are brave enough to developpe a brand-new ammo, like in this case 408 then 375, for a very specific application (very long range precision shooting). How much those calibers had costed to be developed ? There is only two possible answers… A LOT or TOO MUCH FOR YOU !
In the 90’s, I was thinking about a powered smaller as 9mm ammo. Then, for a pistol to carry, having a 30 cal could be interesting but 32ACP was to small and 30 Carbine to big. Having a PHD is not needed to get a quick solution. I’ve cuted the 30 Carbine brass and putted a 32ACP projectile on it. The fact is that the brass was thicker than necessary, but it was a prototype. Looking at the 30 Super Carry specs and at my 30yo prototype, it look pretty much the same.
My mentor in carabine shooting told me "one thing at the time". Having a new gun with a new ammo, and why not with a new color, will be hard to introduce into the market… Except if the Army decide to take it. As an inventor, everyday I have to fight with my self to develop new guns on "good old existing ammo". As an innovation lover, I’ll buy a new gun using a new ammo with 4 mags and 1’000 rounds, just in case. (Like buying Bitcoin 20 years ago)
Let’s talk about new guns. In 1982 started Glock. If you are old enough to have been curious at this time, you should remember that it was difficult to remove a loaded mag because of the plastic, the recoil spring axis brock, the percussion on the primer did not work always. Those are youthful defects. Today, how many Glocks are not functioning like they should ? Not a lot, but 40 years after the first one.
With a new ammo like the 30 Super Carry (and many others), you should ask your self at what point you are motivated to participate at an 1:1 scale developing period just because YOU BELIEVE IN IT ?! And how much you are ready to afford for it ?
HOW TO CHOSE AN AMMO
As a manufacturer
the list is short and looks like this :
22lr
9Para
357Mag
44Mag
45ACP
223
308
338
50
PERIODE !
The next on the list will probably be the 6.8.
As an Army
You should ask the manufacturer and listen to him !!! (NO COMMENT)
As a precision shooter
You should take the best projectile to fly for the range you will shoot, then the "engine" understanding the brass needed for the power, then the twist… And enjoy shooting !
As a hunter
You should take the right ammo to stop the game you will face.
As a civilian for your protection/response power
You should take the gun you do feel comfortable with (even if it is an old revolver). Pay attention, comfortable do not means "I want a 44mag", it means the one you feel naturally good for a safe handling and easy carrying, remembering that it is 3 shots, 3 meters, 3 seconds, no more is needed.
BETWEEN CREATIVITY AND ORDER
I recently answered the USSOCOM. Their wanted specs had no practical logic and many small arms factories in the US (I did not say industries), would love to realize something just to have their name on the list. They would make a crap with no innovation, and finally probably just useless.
CONCLUSION
I do hope this OP will help you to decide what to do and what to choose, knowing that today, for many reasons, I do hope that the 30 Super Carry will finally take place into my "manufacturer’s ammo list" because civilians like you showed in 2024 that they trusted it, even if it was at the time much more expensive than other ammos.
Best regards from Switzerland !
Simper Fidelis
I have to react to the OP named "30 Super Carry vs. 9mm" ( https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/30-super-carry-vs-9mm.123552/ ) that like said benenglish expected "non-serious answers intended to be funny", but please take the time to read because her "will be serious answers".
As a gun designer, when you want to create a NEW gun (not a 1911’s custom), and make the best one of its kind, the first think you have to do is to choose the right ammo for it (HOW TO CHOSE AN AMMO). Then, you will decide how will have to work your new gun around this ammo. Remember, the ammo is the center of your mechanism’s world.
In the past, meaning around the 70’s the 308 was "wildcatted" a lot. How many "new" brass bottoms have a 12mm diameter ? Many ! Why ? Because it is so simple to cut an existing brass base, and most of the time the simplest way is the cheapest way too. If I do not mistake, even the 44 AutoMag is based on a 308. Wildcat ammos are fun and some are ballistically very interesting. Remember, the 223 was a wildcat. (BETWEEN CREATIVITY AND ORDER) The 222 too. The 223 was adopted by the Army, and the 222 by some sharpshooters. Witch one is the best and witch one is the cheapest ? Got it ? OK maybe not, let me explain.
Developing a new ammo is as interesting as expensive. Money is the sinews of war. Once an investor (like the Army) choose an ammunition, this one will be developed. See today the 6.8 ! All the others will stay kind of "wildcat ammo" for curious and relics enthusiasts. The army is probably the best contributor for new market. It choose a new ammo, a new weapon, it will be filmed, being in a movie, into video games and at the end some guys will enter a gun shop and asking for it. Good deal.
Some creators (I immediately think about CheyTac) are brave enough to developpe a brand-new ammo, like in this case 408 then 375, for a very specific application (very long range precision shooting). How much those calibers had costed to be developed ? There is only two possible answers… A LOT or TOO MUCH FOR YOU !
In the 90’s, I was thinking about a powered smaller as 9mm ammo. Then, for a pistol to carry, having a 30 cal could be interesting but 32ACP was to small and 30 Carbine to big. Having a PHD is not needed to get a quick solution. I’ve cuted the 30 Carbine brass and putted a 32ACP projectile on it. The fact is that the brass was thicker than necessary, but it was a prototype. Looking at the 30 Super Carry specs and at my 30yo prototype, it look pretty much the same.
My mentor in carabine shooting told me "one thing at the time". Having a new gun with a new ammo, and why not with a new color, will be hard to introduce into the market… Except if the Army decide to take it. As an inventor, everyday I have to fight with my self to develop new guns on "good old existing ammo". As an innovation lover, I’ll buy a new gun using a new ammo with 4 mags and 1’000 rounds, just in case. (Like buying Bitcoin 20 years ago)
Let’s talk about new guns. In 1982 started Glock. If you are old enough to have been curious at this time, you should remember that it was difficult to remove a loaded mag because of the plastic, the recoil spring axis brock, the percussion on the primer did not work always. Those are youthful defects. Today, how many Glocks are not functioning like they should ? Not a lot, but 40 years after the first one.
With a new ammo like the 30 Super Carry (and many others), you should ask your self at what point you are motivated to participate at an 1:1 scale developing period just because YOU BELIEVE IN IT ?! And how much you are ready to afford for it ?
HOW TO CHOSE AN AMMO
As a manufacturer
the list is short and looks like this :
22lr
9Para
357Mag
44Mag
45ACP
223
308
338
50
PERIODE !
The next on the list will probably be the 6.8.
As an Army
You should ask the manufacturer and listen to him !!! (NO COMMENT)
As a precision shooter
You should take the best projectile to fly for the range you will shoot, then the "engine" understanding the brass needed for the power, then the twist… And enjoy shooting !
As a hunter
You should take the right ammo to stop the game you will face.
As a civilian for your protection/response power
You should take the gun you do feel comfortable with (even if it is an old revolver). Pay attention, comfortable do not means "I want a 44mag", it means the one you feel naturally good for a safe handling and easy carrying, remembering that it is 3 shots, 3 meters, 3 seconds, no more is needed.
BETWEEN CREATIVITY AND ORDER
I recently answered the USSOCOM. Their wanted specs had no practical logic and many small arms factories in the US (I did not say industries), would love to realize something just to have their name on the list. They would make a crap with no innovation, and finally probably just useless.
CONCLUSION
I do hope this OP will help you to decide what to do and what to choose, knowing that today, for many reasons, I do hope that the 30 Super Carry will finally take place into my "manufacturer’s ammo list" because civilians like you showed in 2024 that they trusted it, even if it was at the time much more expensive than other ammos.
Best regards from Switzerland !
Simper Fidelis