Handgun possession under 21

[ZX9RCAM]

Can you show me in 46.13 where it is an offense for a person under 17 to posses a firearm?

Is that to literally "posses", or to be driving around with it in the car?

 

[Renegade]

The exceptions allowed in the federal law require unloaded and locked up-no use in carrying for defense in an automobile.

You missed the most important exception:

(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

Since the juvenile's possession is in accordance with State and local law, that subsection does not apply.

 

[Nightwatch]

You know that it's not an offense by the person under 17 as written in 46:13. The offense is committed by the person who made the person under 17 able to access the loaded firearm, as it says. What would happen is that the person under 17, not fitting any of the exceptions, would be detained, the firearm confiscated and used for evidence...and that just don't work for most folks. I don't need the misdemeanor charge, nor do I need to lose a weapon due to ignoring the law.

Under the quoted federal law, both the person who transfers and the juvenile who possesses commit an offense.

 

[Nightwatch]

You missed the most important exception:

(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

Since the juvenile's possession is in accordance with State and local law, that subsection does not apply.

Not so. That exception you refer to is a qualifier for the other exceptions "...and (iv)"

It does not by itself make an exception...state law doesn't nullify the federal law here.

 

[Renegade]

Not so. That exception you refer to is a qualifier for the other exceptions "...and (iv)"

It does not by itself make an exception...state law doesn't nullify the federal law here.

The law is unconstitutional anyway, and would easily be struck down if anyone tried to enforce it.

 

[Nightwatch]

Agreed that it's unconstitutional, but it, like a lot of other unconstitutional garbage, has been enforced against those of us who don't have the money to fight it. Justice is more rare than it used to be, and the abuse of power(taken, not given) is more common. I'm sure that the federal law has been enforced, and the state law, too...just don't find the numbers to prove or disprove that yet. Our gooberments don't understand big words like "...shall not be infringed...".

 

[Renegade]

Agreed that it's unconstitutional, but it, like a lot of other unconstitutional garbage, has been enforced against those of us who don't have the money to fight it. Justice is more rare than it used to be, and the abuse of power(taken, not given) is more common. I'm sure that the federal law has been enforced, and the state law, too...just don't find the numbers to prove or disprove that yet. Our gooberments don't understand big words like "...shall not be infringed...".

I doubt you will find any cases of it being enforced in the context of this thread - a driver under 18 using MPA.

 

[Nightwatch]

You were talking about the Federal law when you made that statement. I don't see the state law as being any more constitutional, though. It remains that it's against federal law...and it sucks. Comes under the heading of "you will parent-and here's HOW you will parent." I was raised where very young people had guns and seldom any trouble, because they had been taught right and wrong...not so today.

As to the state law, I'm sure a cop would use it to hold and contain a suspicious or smart-alec youngster and a gun, but, again, neither of us have any records to prove it either way. Whether the cop handed the kid and the gun over to the parent along with the gun and a warning, or charged him...we don't have stats on.

 

[Renegade]

You were talking about the Federal law when you made that statement.

I still am. I doubt you will find any cases of it being enforced in the context of this thread - a driver under 18 using MPA. As in the driver is in full compliance with TX/MPA, yet somehow he gets federally charged.

Another one I doubt you will find, is >18 drivers in full compliance with TX/MPA (but do not have LTC, or a gun covered by LTC), getting charged for School Zone violations.

 

[Nightwatch]

Federal law is more strict on age than Tx is...you still seem to believe that as long as the person's keeping state law, the federal law has no authority...that's just not true. Another example of the same thing is the state can legalize medical marijuana-and it's still illegal under federal law-the feds can prosecute. The locals can catch a person legal under state law and hand them off to the feds to solve a problem or make a point.

Gun laws boil down to there's no right way to do a wrong thing...they should just follow the 2A.

It doesn't matter what you think they're enforcing or not...the liability of an arrest, gun forfeiture, and felony charges in the federal system just doesn't make the gamble worth it. I believe the wisest thing is to follow the law that's on the books. I'm not advising anyone to risk their gun rights or LTC because I "doubt" that they'll enforce the law.

 

[Renegade]

Federal law is more strict on age than Tx is...the person's keeping state law, the federal law has no authority...that's just not true...The locals can catch a person legal under state law and hand them off to the feds to solve a problem or make a point.

No I am saying as long as they are in compliance with TX law, you will be hard pressed to find them being prosecuted under Federal Law. But prove me wrong and show me a few dozen.....

 

[Nightwatch]

No I am saying as long as they are in compliance with TX law, you will be hard pressed to find them being prosecuted under Federal Law. But prove me wrong and show me a few dozen.....

That's once you say the law's unenforceable and easily struck down, and three times you doubt it's being enforced. Since it's your opinion that's conflicting with what the law says-how 'bout YOU doing some digging to give your opinion weight-why should I do your homework for you? The laws say what they say, and good advice is to follow the law.

 

[Renegade]

That's once you say the law's unenforceable and easily struck down, and three times you doubt it's being enforced. Since it's your opinion that's conflicting with what the law says-how 'bout YOU doing some digging to give your opinion weight-why should I do your homework for you? The laws say what they say, and good advice is to follow the law.

I have done the home work. I cannot find one case of a person in compliance with TX/MPA who has been federally charged.

I know folks who violate these laws regularly. I imagine I myself have over 50,000 instances of violations. Nothing happens because nobody is enforcing and nobody cares.

But prove me wrong and show me a few dozen prosecutions.

 

[Nightwatch]

I'm not going to waste time and energy digging because you don't believe that laws are being enforced. It doesn't MATTER how many times you or anyone else gets away with violating the law. When a person comes on and asks questions as the OP did, they don't want or need to know what someone's opinion of the law is, but what the law says. That's been served. Believe what you want to, and get away with scoffing it-until you don't.

 

[Renegade]

I'm not going to waste time and energy digging because you don't believe that laws are being enforced.

Because you can't. There are thousands of Federal Laws on the books that are not enforced. In fact, I have violated some of these laws with an ATF agent in my truck. I would guess the majority of gun owners in Texas have at some point.

 

[txinvestigator]

Federal law is more strict on age than Tx is...you still seem to believe that as long as the person's keeping state law, the federal law has no authority...that's just not true. Another example of the same thing is the state can legalize medical marijuana-and it's still illegal under federal law-the feds can prosecute. The locals can catch a person legal under state law and hand them off to the feds to solve a problem or make a point.

Generally speaking, local LEOs cannot enforce federal law. A Colorado cop has no authority to detain a person for Colorado legal amounts of marijuana. Nor can a Texas cop detain a person for a lawful act regarding a firearm that is a violation of federal.

I suppose if a FLEO was riding along with the local then the FLEO would make the arrest. I haven't seen that....ever, have you?

 

[Nightwatch]

I haven't seen many locals who'd want a fed riding with them, no.

Texas peace officers may make warrantless arrests in felony cases...the SC has held that state officers may make arrests for federal felonies, and a Texas AG opinion has held that it can be done.

Federal game wardens and Tx game wardens crosstrain and Tx game wardens enforce federal game laws. I don't know what other cooperative efforts exist.

 

[TexasRedneck]

The one thing that's overlooked in all of this (from what I've read - and I haven't read EVERY post) - ATF has ruled that an FFL can't sell a handgun to someone over 18, but under 21. However, Federal LAW does NOT say it's illegal for an 18-21 year old to own/possess a handgun.

 

[Nightwatch]

The one thing that's overlooked in all of this (from what I've read - and I haven't read EVERY post) - ATF has ruled that an FFL can't sell a handgun to someone over 18, but under 21. However, Federal LAW does NOT say it's illegal for an 18-21 year old to own/possess a handgun.

That is true-just didn't pertain to the OP's questions. My son, an Army Reservist, got his CHL at 18, carried a pistol, but I had to give him one-he couldn't buy one himself.

 

[V-Tach]

Many Federal Laws aren't being enforced.....

Very rare to hear of someone being prosecuted for lying a 4473 and being a prohibited person.

They must pick and choose...too many otherwise.....if they get you on something else, they will add the extra charge......