Student debt just hit $1.5 trillion

[Ole Cowboy]

We got a REAL problem with this and it's default rates:

• Trends for the 1996 entry cohort show that cumulative default rates continue to rise between 12 and 20 years after initial entry. Applying these trends to the 2004 entry cohort suggests that nearly 40 percent may default on their student loans by 2023.
  
•  The new data show the importance of examining outcomes for all entrants, not just borrowers, since borrowing rates differ substantially across groups and over time. For example, for-profit borrowers default at twice the rate of public two-year borrowers (52 versus 26 percent after 12 years), but because for-profit students are more likely to borrow, the rate of default among all for-profit entrants is nearly four times that of public two-year entrants (47 percent versus 13 percent).
  
  https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/scott-clayton-report.pdf
  
  

Student debt just hit $1.5 trillion

America’s student loan problem just surpassed a depressing milestone.

Outstanding student debt reached $1.521 trillion in the first quarter of 2018, according to the Federal Reserve, hitting $1.5 trillion for the first time. Though the marker is somewhat arbitrary, it offers a reminder of how quickly student debt has grown—jumping from about $600 billion 10 years ago to more than $1.5 trillion today—and that the factors fueling the increase aren’t likely to disappear any time soon.

“People pay attention to milestones,” said Mark Kantrowitz, a financial aid expert. When student debt surpassed $1 trillion in 2012, “it definitely caused a shift in coverage of student loans in the news media,” he said. In theory, that helps raise awareness of the issue for student advocates, lawmakers and, in particular, borrowers when considering what college to attend. But Kantrowitz added, “What’s more important is the impact on individual borrowers.”

Terrence Horan/MarketWatch
One in six graduates have debt that exceeds their income

And they are feeling it. College graduates leave school with about $37,000 in debt on average, according to Kantrowitz’s data, a sum that can be bearable for many, given that the average starting salary for a new college graduate last year hovered around $50,000. But a large share—as many as one in six college graduates, Kantrowitz estimates—will leave school with debt that exceeds their income. That will make it challenging for those borrowers to pay off their loans on a standard 10-year repayment plan, he said.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/student-debt-just-hit-15-trillion-2018-05-08

 

[oldag]

Many of those poor folks would have been better off with a much lower cost vocational program. They could have earned very good livings with far less educational expense.

Glad to see the Trump administration trying to revive vocational programs.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Many of those poor folks would have been better off with a much lower cost vocational program. They could have earned very good livings with far less educational expense.

Glad to see the Trump administration trying to revive vocational programs.

Having hired a LOT of people in the IT field and doing IT bleeding edge work I found my best hires did NOT have a degree in Computer Science. I looked for those with degrees in Business and Music and vocational/Jr College training and HANDS ON experience. I found they understood the challenges far better, able to think outside the box and learn faster.

 

[AustinN4]

"My guest today on the show has made a career of questioning this narrative. In fact, he argues that our obsession with 4-year colleges and white collar work, to the denigration of the blue collar kind, has left us economically and spiritually poorer both on the individual and national level. His name is Mike Rowe."
Full interview at https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/mike-rowe-interview/
************************************
Mike Rowe has been preaching this for years.

 

[Brains]

Having hired a LOT of people in the IT field and doing IT bleeding edge work I found my best hires did NOT have a degree in Computer Science. I looked for those with degrees in Business and Music and vocational/Jr College training and HANDS ON experience. I found they understood the challenges far better, able to think outside the box and learn faster.

You're dead on. I screen out many college grads with very simple questions, because they know how to accomplish precisely nothing yet want big salaries right out of the gate. To do well, you hire the person who WANTS to be in the field not who wants the salary that comes with being an expert in the field. You really want to find the person who does it because they like it even when they're not getting paid for it.

In a nutshell, I'd much rather have the person who figures things out than the person who "knows" things.

 

[MTA]

Funny how colleges are filled with commies but are the biggest "Big Business" businesses on the planet.

College doesnt have to be socialized to be "inexpensive". Cut out unions, bureacracy and worthless degree programs. Make schools that give you a degree purely in your career field. I shouldn't have to waste time and money learning about "How to be a bulldyke 101" when I am getting a STEM degree. If you are reading this and you are in high school, do yourself a favor and look into trade jobs. You can charge city yuppies an arm & leg for work they are too lazy to do themselves

Now here is a rant by me, a blue collar type who went to college to get a degree after being in the military. This is just my point of view and I understand that other people dont view it this way/deal with this. This is honestly just cathartic to type all this crap out:

IT jobs are soul sucking, especially at larger enterprises and if you are coming in on the ground floor, good luck because you are going to be working mostly with people who barely speak english. You will be an outcast if you are white and you aren't self hating. You will get a pass on this if you are a veteran because nearly every single foreigner and liberal I work with thinks that veterans are one criticism away from going on a killing rampage.
You will be surrounded by foreigners or white people who never see sunlight and wear knit democrat donkey hats (no shit, not kidding here). The perks: you can make good money, especially if you contract. The question: is it worth it?

The money is the only thing keeping me going at this point. I should have did something else with my life but I was sold on the "#1 job for introverts" bullshit.
Programming use to be a field that was perfect for the creative and the introverted but it has morphed into fixing shitty code made by someone thousands of miles away who takes a dump in the ocean every morning, pointless meetings that are on your calendar so some retard on the business side can justify their insanely high salary, despite not serving any real purpose and you sitting, staring at the wall wondering why God hasn't sent an F5 straight at the building you work in.

End rant. Pretty salty but I really want blue collar type people to think twice before wasting money going to college at all, especially for anything IT related. If you are blessed with the ability to work with your hands, then do it. You will miss it when you are too tired from commuting and trying to translate a selection of third world languages all day to work on your truck, replace the drywall, mow the grass, go hunting.

 

[grasshopperglock]

I owed $53,000 after college. University of Mary Hardin Baylor. Two BA's. One in criminal justice and the other sociology. The girlfriend just graduated last Saturday from CTC. She now has a master's degree. I'm afraid to ask what she owes. She works for the college and they have some kind of pay share thing. She works for a term and the college takes care of a portion of the loan. CTC is way cheaper then UMHB.

My son got a full ride scholarship to Texas State while in high school. Until he walked off after about 4 months. Didn't care for Texas State. He now works as a senior software engineer. Currently he's in Colorado and makes about $10k a month. No college degree. $120,000 a year...so there's that.

 

[sucker76]

A quick way to lower college tuition is take all government subsidies and guaranteed loans away. The rates are high because the loan that will surely be defaulted doesn't hurt the institution but the student.

 

[Brains]

IT jobs are soul sucking, especially at larger enterprises and if you are coming in on the ground floor, good luck because you are going to be working mostly with people who barely speak english.

Larger enterprises are the ones clamoring for high numbers of outsourced 'programmers' and H1-B's. How they haven't figured out at the end of the year it is more expensive than hiring a smaller number of higher skilled Americans, I haven't quite figured out.

No college degree. $120,000 a year...so there's that.

Sounds about right.

Full disclosure - I do not have a degree either, which may sway my hiring decisions, but so far it has worked out very well.

 

[oldag]

A quick way to lower college tuition is take all government subsidies and guaranteed loans away. The rates are high because the loan that will surely be defaulted doesn't hurt the institution but the student.

Some truth there.

 

[Darkpriest667]

Larger enterprises are the ones clamoring for high numbers of outsourced 'programmers' and H1-B's. How they haven't figured out at the end of the year it is more expensive than hiring a smaller number of higher skilled Americans, I haven't quite figured out.


Sounds about right.

Full disclosure - I do not have a degree either, which may sway my hiring decisions, but so far it has worked out very well.

I have a degree, not in IT, but I've been building computers and screwing around with them for 30 years. I've been thinking of getting into IT but everyone wants CISCO and A+ Certs and I don't have them nor am I compelled to go get them.

 

[TheDan]

In a nutshell, I'd much rather have the person who figures things out than the person who "knows" things.

Same here. I was a hiring manager in IT and found people applying with a degree were actually at a disadvantage. Even if it was an IT or IS degree; those seem worthless. Industry certifications are much better, but you still had to test them to make sure they could apply it. I preferred to hire someone with no knowledge and basic problem solving skills.

 

[TheDan]

I've been thinking of getting into IT but everyone wants CISCO and A+ Certs and I don't have them nor am I compelled to go get them.

A+ and Network+ are bullshit... What type of IT work are you wanting to do? You might need a cert to get past the resume filter's HR has setup, but if you get an interview being able to demonstrate applied knowledge is more important.

 

[TheDan]

IT jobs are soul sucking, especially at larger enterprises and if you are coming in on the ground floor, good luck because you are going to be working mostly with people who barely speak english. You will be an outcast if you are white and you aren't self hating. You will get a pass on this if you are a veteran because nearly every single foreigner and liberal I work with thinks that veterans are one criticism away from going on a killing rampage.
You will be surrounded by foreigners or white people who never see sunlight and wear knit democrat donkey hats (no shit, not kidding here). The perks: you can make good money, especially if you contract. The question: is it worth it?

The money is the only thing keeping me going at this point. I should have did something else with my life but I was sold on the "#1 job for introverts" bullshit.
Programming use to be a field that was perfect for the creative and the introverted but it has morphed into fixing shitty code made by someone thousands of miles away who takes a dump in the ocean every morning, pointless meetings that are on your calendar so some retard on the business side can justify their insanely high salary, despite not serving any real purpose and you sitting, staring at the wall wondering why God hasn't sent an F5 straight at the building you work in.

End rant. Pretty salty but I really want blue collar type people to think twice before wasting money going to college at all, especially for anything IT related. If you are blessed with the ability to work with your hands, then do it. You will miss it when you are too tired from commuting and trying to translate a selection of third world languages all day to work on your truck, replace the drywall, mow the grass, go hunting.

I think you just work for the wrong company.

 

[oldag]

Same here. I was a hiring manager in IT and found people applying with a degree were actually at a disadvantage. Even if it was an IT or IS degree; those seem worthless. Industry certifications are much better, but you still had to test them to make sure they could apply it. I preferred to hire someone with no knowledge and basic problem solving skills.

The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

I have known a good number of people with great knowledge and great problem solving skills.

 

[Darkpriest667]

A+ and Network+ are bullshit... What type of IT work are you wanting to do? You might need a cert to get past the resume filter's HR has setup, but if you get an interview being able to demonstrate applied knowledge is more important.

I could do corporate helpdesk easily probably without a script. Outside of "what" I love setting up networks and servers. Physical install is FUN. Deployment is awesome. I'm thinking of moving to Williamson county and going to work for a few buddies that are higher ups at Dell, but I'd rather explore my local options first.

 

[oldag]

You might need a cert to get past the resume filter's HR has setup, ...

And sadly that is a huge factor in this age of the internet, automated screening, etc.

 

[TheDan]

The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

I have known a good number of people with great knowledge and great problem solving skills.

Definitely, but from personal experience those people are more rare. At least at the salaries I was allowed to hire for

 

[TheDan]

Outside of "what" I love setting up networks and servers. Physical install is FUN. Deployment is awesome.

Although highly correlated, network infrastructure and servers are two different jobs. Pick one to start off in and then you can easily cross train to the other. Entry level positions in either aren't going to pay much, but once you get a year or two of experience you'll be able to find better paying jobs easily.

 

[Renegade]

Having hired a LOT of people in the IT field and doing IT bleeding edge work I found my best hires did NOT have a degree in Computer Science. I looked for those with degrees in Business and Music and vocational/Jr College training and HANDS ON experience. I found they understood the challenges far better, able to think outside the box and learn faster.

Most CS programs focus on programming, which IT is not.