No we don't.
Your local GUN SHOP
- Thread starter leVieux
- Start date
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TheMailMan
TGT Addict
Damn, you're thick. Smokeless powder isn't measured in drams. It's measured in grains. Shotshells in the '60's were not loaded with black powder. If it's loaded with smokeless powder it's a DRAM EQUIVALENT.
A dram is a unit of VOLUME. When loading shotshells you load grains, which is a measure of WEIGHT.
BTW, brass height has NOTHING to do with the actual load. You can load heavy loads in a low brass hull and light loads in a high brass hull.
Outside of promotional shells the AA shells that Walmart sells are the same as the LGS sells for almost twice the price. Same SKU, same barcode, same product number.
It's pretty obvious you're not a reloader and have very little knowledge of what actually goes into ammo.
BuzzinSATX
Well-Known
Best wishes on your success! Based on your full post, I really hope you kick butt!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Man, yoctu hit exactly what I was thinking. Several times I went to a gun store on San Pedro in San Antonio, a well known place, where you were lucky to be acknowledged as a customer. The place was an old established business in San Antonio, but the store was junky, piled high with "stuff" so much so you needed a hard hat to shop. They had the condescinding attitude you mention. The other store on Hot Wells was just the opposite. You could walk in on a busy Saturday morning and without fail someone would greet you and ask how they could help. I have seen them work with a female customer for an hour, show her several different pieces, explain the workings without the "you're a dummy" attitude displayed in the San Pedro store. I had to drive past the first store to get to the 2nd store and was glad to do it.
My buying in any store is a matter of value. If the price is higher is it worth it to have the clerk prove be helpful. If I know what I want price becomes the deciding factor. In other words, what's best for me.
Here is another example of why the LGS just doesn’t help me. This just happened today.
I needed some parts for a well known popular modern gun. I want exact factory replacements as I am trounleshooting/working on the gun and its misfiring problems.
Also wanted some specialized handgun SD ammo. Common caliber. Nthing weird or unpossible to get just no store seems to carry it.
So I’m over there talking to the guy about this. He says he can do this. So I say order the parts and several hundred dollars worth of the ammo. Now mind you I have spent quite a bit of $ in this shop.
Go back today. Hasn’t even ordered it yet. Shit.
I could have done this myslf two weeks ago on-line and had everything by now.
This is why the LGS guys lose my business.
I needed some parts for a well known popular modern gun. I want exact factory replacements as I am trounleshooting/working on the gun and its misfiring problems.
Also wanted some specialized handgun SD ammo. Common caliber. Nthing weird or unpossible to get just no store seems to carry it.
So I’m over there talking to the guy about this. He says he can do this. So I say order the parts and several hundred dollars worth of the ammo. Now mind you I have spent quite a bit of $ in this shop.
Go back today. Hasn’t even ordered it yet. Shit.
I could have done this myslf two weeks ago on-line and had everything by now.
This is why the LGS guys lose my business.
Its really hit or miss depending on who is helping you.
Some LGS guys are experts, and are willing to help. Others don't seem very motivated, and if you ask the wrong question, you will never get what you need. The helpful ones often will realize you asked "X" but you really need to know about "Y" and will steer you right.
I shop local when I can. I like to frequent the "little man" whenever I can. But I have a shop or two I likely won't return to due to unmotivated employees who do the bare minimum.
Some LGS guys are experts, and are willing to help. Others don't seem very motivated, and if you ask the wrong question, you will never get what you need. The helpful ones often will realize you asked "X" but you really need to know about "Y" and will steer you right.
I shop local when I can. I like to frequent the "little man" whenever I can. But I have a shop or two I likely won't return to due to unmotivated employees who do the bare minimum.
I understand. They don't all deserve to survive, do they?
Maybe you should show them your note above.
Good Luck !
leVieux
Shit service pisses me off. When I did help with shows in Oregon for an 07, I noticed this type of crap service with many people. I won't say who I worked for. Its in the past. He and I go back to when we were in high school. But the fact is just cause someone is your freind doesn't mean their going to treat customers good. One weekend after a show he was on the fork lift and a guy who I sold a pt111 to called. Couldn't put his gun back together. Lol. So captain dildo britches starts cussing the guy out. Telling him he doesn't have time for his shit. I tell him you could have just said you're busy and to call later or better yet shoot you an email. Along with other reasons I left. Its a shame too. 16 years as freinds down the crapper but I don't treat my people (customers) like shit.
I see it all the time. My favorite are people who sit when you walk in. Don't say much. Don't ask questions. I love learning why someone needs a new gun. It can better help them out. Newbies are often too scared to ask stupid questions. Too much macho bs in shops. My attitude is I want as many good people as possible armed to the teeth and having fun.
Like Moonpie says, then you get people who forget customers. Horrible. Nothing more insulting.
I see it all the time. My favorite are people who sit when you walk in. Don't say much. Don't ask questions. I love learning why someone needs a new gun. It can better help them out. Newbies are often too scared to ask stupid questions. Too much macho bs in shops. My attitude is I want as many good people as possible armed to the teeth and having fun.
Like Moonpie says, then you get people who forget customers. Horrible. Nothing more insulting.
Even Texas has some major A-holes. Better luck in the future.
We all know what you are talking about. Sadly !
leVieux
Back in 2011, while working on a pipeline construction project there in El Campo I dealt mostly with Jay there at "Mr Money Pawn Gun Jewelry" who is also affiliated with Full Auto Firearms "dot" com.......
Got many a great deal through them the 11 months I was staying in town.
My current local gunshop is Meadow Ridge Archery and Gun, just down the road from the farm here east of Nacogdoches and run by Laurie Pruitt and her husband. Great place and good folks.
Good for you.
R&M is a real full-service Gun Shop with some sporting goods, fishing tackle, a well-stocked archery section, and great on-site management.
The ONLY problem with R&M is that they may be closed during their posted "hours open", especially on a Fall Saturday afternoon.
leVieux
It comes up often and has been rehashed a lot, but 10 pages of replies means it's still a relevant conversation. I'd like to address a few of the myths of retail gun businesses:
1. High prices. Not all gun shops are high priced. We sell at MAP wherever MAP exists. Most of our reloading components are priced equal to Midway...except we already paid the shipping and hazmat for you. I often price match OUT THE DOOR many online stores. If you already know what you want and you just show me the website, and we do a comparison to online plus ship plus transfer fee plus etc, versus in my store plus sales tax, I'll usually match it. Now, I only charge $25 for transfer fees so if I make more at $25, I'll tell you to buy online. If I make just $35 price matching, well, that's $10 more or 40 PERCENT increase in profit! Same receiving paperwork. Same 4473. So I'll do it. Now, if I spent an hour with you and handled 10 guns and helped you make a decision...provided you a service you just cannot get online...hopefully you'd respect that and pay more. It's like the full service gas station versus the self-serve. it's like a vending machine (online) versus a sit down restaurant with a wine steward. Sure, the products are the same, but the service isn't.
2. Crappy service. One poster said it well: it's like a restaurant. If you get crappy service, don't go back. Simple. We are often commended on good service. We don't talk down to people. We've even done free services for new customers who never come back. Then again, I fixed a girls gun today for free (she tried to jam a 30-06 cartridge into a 308 chamber) and she was about to leave after just saying "thanks" and somehow handguns and then handgun classes came up. Now we are talking about doing a private group LTC class. So being nice paid off in that case. But I'll say that we've only done this for 4 years. Guys who have been doing this for 20 years saw 30% margins and busy stores transition to 10% margins and tire kickers and price shoppers. So maybe they're a little jaded. Many get out of the business. I even had one former FFL tell me "I know you make 30% on these guns" because that's what he was making in the 80s. Times have changed. While stores should have good service, they also need respectful customers. We have a guy who will spend an hour telling me about how my prices are too high because Powder Valley and Midsouth and ... beat me by $1 to $2 on a pound of powder. But then he asks me 100 questions about reloading. Much of his understanding was wrong. I usually play it straight but I just had to snap back at him after an hour. I asked him, "now, I just gave you an hour education on reloading. Isn't that education worth an extra $2 on a pound of powder? I doubt Powder Valley would have taken that time with you. We are more of a full service store. Great prices and great information all conveniently located." But most people still just want the service for free and the prices to match online stores.
3. LGSs should just evolve to sell online. How many mom and pop general stores evolved online? None. There's basically just Amazon. There's really only room for a few online stores. You can't have 10,000 LGS "just go online" to make up for the crappy margins to make up for it in volume. It doesn't work like that. Online shopping is an amazing business model. It allows faceless transactions which save money. It dehumanizes the experience. It's convenient. Huge selection. Decent self-serve information. No community give back (FFA, 4H, Scouts, sports teams). No local employment. No sales tax (but that's changing). Everything you need under one roof. But that's not possible for every LGS to transition. We have a website and very good prices online. But, frankly, we'll be about the same as Midway or others and they're MUCH larger so their service online is probably better. Remember when every kid in the 90s was building computers in their apartment and making a living at it? Well, it eventually evolved to Dell. And that's it. He started the same way and now nobody really does that anymore. Apple was similar but different. LGS's evolution really should be more on just in time inventory, transfers, gun smithing, custom AR builds, lessons, etc. But if that's the case, you can't say "well, my LGS doesn't have a big selection." He can't. Not at 10% margins and online competition. One poster said the LGS should specialize in hard to find items. Spoken like someone who has never run a business. So 90% of people are looking for 10% of items (Glocks, cheap 380s, 9mm ammo, etc). 10% of people are looking for 90% of the items (1943 K98 stock to refinish a gun from Gunbroker; a sear spring for an Iver Johnson revolver from blah blah). So his idea is that a store should stock 9x as much merchandise to cater to the 10% of people who might look for that. Oh, and be price competitive with online stores. That's nuts.
4. Gouging gun stores. One poster said "I know dealers get a huge discount from Brownells". Not sure what kind of account you have, but my discount is about 5-8% on most items. A few things are better, but Brownells isn't really a wholesaler. They do dealer discounts. Midway doesn't even do dealer discounts. I buy most of my gunsmithing tools from Brownells. Sure, you can buy it yourself if you want. If I charge you more than Brownells, well, then just buy it from Brownells. Not sure why people get bent out of shape about a markup. They cannot make you buy it from them. You do have options. Now, if that guy is finding the part for you or installing it for you, well, you should pay a markup. That's value-added pricing.
5. Box store shopping/online shopping. Surprisingly, there wasn't too much "I shop at Academy" on here this time. People complain about service or sales tax and then they go to Academy. I don't get it. Our prices are as good as Academy's and we do services (and a lot of free education). We do transfers. We do LTC classes. And we're 1% lower in sales tax. But many people on these forums had glowing things to say about Academy (and Gander, and even Walmart) while bashing LGSs (in other threads). Now, I'm not knocking Academy except to say they're the epitome of no service (that's just not their business model). I had wished people on these forums didn't say "I shop at OP, buds, Academy, etc" while the banners of the people who sponsor this "free" forum are being flashed to the right and not mentioned at all. If you're not going to support the stores who support the community (LE programs, high schools sports, or even a LGS owner who eats in your restaurant or gets his oil changed at your garage), at least support the sponsors of this site who give you a free place to bitch about LGSs (and CTD)!
6. This forum isn't representative of the community at large. It's fun to get on here to vent, discuss and trade knowledge, tell stories about shooting 1/2" groups at 2000yds, or whatever. It's better than watching American Idol. Many people on this forum have an immense amount of experience and knowledge (benenglish, for one). And others just act like they do. But it takes all kinds. However, to a larger degree, the types of people (myself largely included) who have the time and motivation to read hours of posts and take another hour to respond are the same type of people who will spend hours online searching and comparing prices just to save $1 on a pound of powder. They'll order a gun from Buds because, net out the door, they saved $5 over buying it local. That's just how they're wired. To other guys, they'll pay $50 more on a $1000 gun with the LGS either to support their business (knowing they could get it cheaper online), or maybe they don't have the time to spend searching, or they don't know or trust online, or they make more than $50 in the time it will take to search online. I even had one guy buy a gun in my store (used) for $500. He said "I think I'm paying too much!" I said, "that's my asking price. Offer me less." He said, "Na, here's $500" as he peeled $500 off a roll of about $5000. So there's people like that out there too. I'd venture to guess that most of us (me included) who are the types to spend this much time on a forum also almost enjoy spending hours reading and searching online for deals. So the posters on this forum, and especially in this thread, are just more wired for online deal shopping than LGS buying. They're not bad people. They're just not wired for LGSs. I've actually evolved a bit from spending hours pinching pennies to spending more to enjoy more. Not for everything. We spent $300 eating dinner last weekend (two people) for, as my wife said, food that we'll just be shitting out in an hour. Now I could have had 100, $3 meals for that same money. But this was about the experience, not about the "I could get that cheaper somewhere else". Some people (my dad) could NEVER spend $300 on dinner. Others do it weekly without flinching. Different strokes for different folks. As a LGS, I've had to accept that I can't and won't win over every customer. Cater to the types of people who want or need LGSs. Don't try to win the ones who don't. Don't sell tampons near the men's dressing rooms. Those aren't your target customers.
For those of you who've read my posts before, I tried to keep it brief. Honestly.
1. High prices. Not all gun shops are high priced. We sell at MAP wherever MAP exists. Most of our reloading components are priced equal to Midway...except we already paid the shipping and hazmat for you. I often price match OUT THE DOOR many online stores. If you already know what you want and you just show me the website, and we do a comparison to online plus ship plus transfer fee plus etc, versus in my store plus sales tax, I'll usually match it. Now, I only charge $25 for transfer fees so if I make more at $25, I'll tell you to buy online. If I make just $35 price matching, well, that's $10 more or 40 PERCENT increase in profit! Same receiving paperwork. Same 4473. So I'll do it. Now, if I spent an hour with you and handled 10 guns and helped you make a decision...provided you a service you just cannot get online...hopefully you'd respect that and pay more. It's like the full service gas station versus the self-serve. it's like a vending machine (online) versus a sit down restaurant with a wine steward. Sure, the products are the same, but the service isn't.
2. Crappy service. One poster said it well: it's like a restaurant. If you get crappy service, don't go back. Simple. We are often commended on good service. We don't talk down to people. We've even done free services for new customers who never come back. Then again, I fixed a girls gun today for free (she tried to jam a 30-06 cartridge into a 308 chamber) and she was about to leave after just saying "thanks" and somehow handguns and then handgun classes came up. Now we are talking about doing a private group LTC class. So being nice paid off in that case. But I'll say that we've only done this for 4 years. Guys who have been doing this for 20 years saw 30% margins and busy stores transition to 10% margins and tire kickers and price shoppers. So maybe they're a little jaded. Many get out of the business. I even had one former FFL tell me "I know you make 30% on these guns" because that's what he was making in the 80s. Times have changed. While stores should have good service, they also need respectful customers. We have a guy who will spend an hour telling me about how my prices are too high because Powder Valley and Midsouth and ... beat me by $1 to $2 on a pound of powder. But then he asks me 100 questions about reloading. Much of his understanding was wrong. I usually play it straight but I just had to snap back at him after an hour. I asked him, "now, I just gave you an hour education on reloading. Isn't that education worth an extra $2 on a pound of powder? I doubt Powder Valley would have taken that time with you. We are more of a full service store. Great prices and great information all conveniently located." But most people still just want the service for free and the prices to match online stores.
3. LGSs should just evolve to sell online. How many mom and pop general stores evolved online? None. There's basically just Amazon. There's really only room for a few online stores. You can't have 10,000 LGS "just go online" to make up for the crappy margins to make up for it in volume. It doesn't work like that. Online shopping is an amazing business model. It allows faceless transactions which save money. It dehumanizes the experience. It's convenient. Huge selection. Decent self-serve information. No community give back (FFA, 4H, Scouts, sports teams). No local employment. No sales tax (but that's changing). Everything you need under one roof. But that's not possible for every LGS to transition. We have a website and very good prices online. But, frankly, we'll be about the same as Midway or others and they're MUCH larger so their service online is probably better. Remember when every kid in the 90s was building computers in their apartment and making a living at it? Well, it eventually evolved to Dell. And that's it. He started the same way and now nobody really does that anymore. Apple was similar but different. LGS's evolution really should be more on just in time inventory, transfers, gun smithing, custom AR builds, lessons, etc. But if that's the case, you can't say "well, my LGS doesn't have a big selection." He can't. Not at 10% margins and online competition. One poster said the LGS should specialize in hard to find items. Spoken like someone who has never run a business. So 90% of people are looking for 10% of items (Glocks, cheap 380s, 9mm ammo, etc). 10% of people are looking for 90% of the items (1943 K98 stock to refinish a gun from Gunbroker; a sear spring for an Iver Johnson revolver from blah blah). So his idea is that a store should stock 9x as much merchandise to cater to the 10% of people who might look for that. Oh, and be price competitive with online stores. That's nuts.
4. Gouging gun stores. One poster said "I know dealers get a huge discount from Brownells". Not sure what kind of account you have, but my discount is about 5-8% on most items. A few things are better, but Brownells isn't really a wholesaler. They do dealer discounts. Midway doesn't even do dealer discounts. I buy most of my gunsmithing tools from Brownells. Sure, you can buy it yourself if you want. If I charge you more than Brownells, well, then just buy it from Brownells. Not sure why people get bent out of shape about a markup. They cannot make you buy it from them. You do have options. Now, if that guy is finding the part for you or installing it for you, well, you should pay a markup. That's value-added pricing.
5. Box store shopping/online shopping. Surprisingly, there wasn't too much "I shop at Academy" on here this time. People complain about service or sales tax and then they go to Academy. I don't get it. Our prices are as good as Academy's and we do services (and a lot of free education). We do transfers. We do LTC classes. And we're 1% lower in sales tax. But many people on these forums had glowing things to say about Academy (and Gander, and even Walmart) while bashing LGSs (in other threads). Now, I'm not knocking Academy except to say they're the epitome of no service (that's just not their business model). I had wished people on these forums didn't say "I shop at OP, buds, Academy, etc" while the banners of the people who sponsor this "free" forum are being flashed to the right and not mentioned at all. If you're not going to support the stores who support the community (LE programs, high schools sports, or even a LGS owner who eats in your restaurant or gets his oil changed at your garage), at least support the sponsors of this site who give you a free place to bitch about LGSs (and CTD)!
6. This forum isn't representative of the community at large. It's fun to get on here to vent, discuss and trade knowledge, tell stories about shooting 1/2" groups at 2000yds, or whatever. It's better than watching American Idol. Many people on this forum have an immense amount of experience and knowledge (benenglish, for one). And others just act like they do. But it takes all kinds. However, to a larger degree, the types of people (myself largely included) who have the time and motivation to read hours of posts and take another hour to respond are the same type of people who will spend hours online searching and comparing prices just to save $1 on a pound of powder. They'll order a gun from Buds because, net out the door, they saved $5 over buying it local. That's just how they're wired. To other guys, they'll pay $50 more on a $1000 gun with the LGS either to support their business (knowing they could get it cheaper online), or maybe they don't have the time to spend searching, or they don't know or trust online, or they make more than $50 in the time it will take to search online. I even had one guy buy a gun in my store (used) for $500. He said "I think I'm paying too much!" I said, "that's my asking price. Offer me less." He said, "Na, here's $500" as he peeled $500 off a roll of about $5000. So there's people like that out there too. I'd venture to guess that most of us (me included) who are the types to spend this much time on a forum also almost enjoy spending hours reading and searching online for deals. So the posters on this forum, and especially in this thread, are just more wired for online deal shopping than LGS buying. They're not bad people. They're just not wired for LGSs. I've actually evolved a bit from spending hours pinching pennies to spending more to enjoy more. Not for everything. We spent $300 eating dinner last weekend (two people) for, as my wife said, food that we'll just be shitting out in an hour. Now I could have had 100, $3 meals for that same money. But this was about the experience, not about the "I could get that cheaper somewhere else". Some people (my dad) could NEVER spend $300 on dinner. Others do it weekly without flinching. Different strokes for different folks. As a LGS, I've had to accept that I can't and won't win over every customer. Cater to the types of people who want or need LGSs. Don't try to win the ones who don't. Don't sell tampons near the men's dressing rooms. Those aren't your target customers.
For those of you who've read my posts before, I tried to keep it brief. Honestly.
My main beef with the LGS is they very very rarely have what I want.
When I talk with them about ordering something I expect it to be ordered in a timely fashion. Not six weeks from now.
No I am not going to $129.00 for a $32.00 part.
That InnerWebZ thingie works both ways.
I am forced to buy from places like Bud’s because the LGS guys just can’t seem to get the gun I want.
Example: A few months back I wanted the new Colt Gold Cup in 9mm. I google around to get a general idea of cost and availability. Go to LGS(three different stores).
I am told Colt doesn’t make a 9mm Gold Cup so we aren’t even going to look.
I get told My distributor doesn’t have any so you’re Not getting any.
Now I knew the gun was out there and available so this B.S. wasn’t going to cut it.
Alrighty then. I get on Bud’s. Order the gun. Ship it to a local FFL. Done. I have my Gold Cup. LGS lost a sale.
$50 or 75 one way or the other wouldn’t have bothered me. It was We don’t give a damn about what you want attitude that makes me do things for myself every time.
I’ve had to do this same thing many times over the years.
When I talk with them about ordering something I expect it to be ordered in a timely fashion. Not six weeks from now.
No I am not going to $129.00 for a $32.00 part.
That InnerWebZ thingie works both ways.
I am forced to buy from places like Bud’s because the LGS guys just can’t seem to get the gun I want.
Example: A few months back I wanted the new Colt Gold Cup in 9mm. I google around to get a general idea of cost and availability. Go to LGS(three different stores).
I am told Colt doesn’t make a 9mm Gold Cup so we aren’t even going to look.
I get told My distributor doesn’t have any so you’re Not getting any.
Now I knew the gun was out there and available so this B.S. wasn’t going to cut it.
Alrighty then. I get on Bud’s. Order the gun. Ship it to a local FFL. Done. I have my Gold Cup. LGS lost a sale.
$50 or 75 one way or the other wouldn’t have bothered me. It was We don’t give a damn about what you want attitude that makes me do things for myself every time.
I’ve had to do this same thing many times over the years.
Texasgordo
TGT Addict
Say the name so we know who to avoid.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Bud's is a LGS, so you still supported one by using them. It's not your fault any of your LGS choose not to run the same operation as Bud's in your area.
A&P, thank you for the detailed response. I've worked a little bit of retail. Not a lot but enough to know customer's can be awful. I also don't believe in spending time in a gun shop kicking tires and figuring out what I want just to turn around and buy it a little cheaper. That's the added value I was talking about in a previous post. I'm willing to pay for that. If I'm ever up in Magnolia, I'll be sure you drop in.
Not to nitpick too much because your point is well received but you'd be surprised. There's actually quite the PC builder culture these days. Mostly around high end gaming rigs.
Not to nitpick too much because your point is well received but you'd be surprised. There's actually quite the PC builder culture these days. Mostly around high end gaming rigs.
