Powder loads min-max

[Texasgrillchef]

I am new to reloading. I am doing as much research as i can and have dowloaded several reloading manuals.

I also got Hornady AP press and all the dies etc... I am going to be reloading 9mm, 45acp, 45colt, 454 casull, & 45-70.

I have two reasons for handloading.

1. Is to lower cost of ammunition so i can save money &/or fire more rounds in target practice.

2. To provide the best load possible when needing the ammo for self defense with humans &/or animals. Meaning i want to use the “hottest” load possible. I will use new starline brass for all actual ammo i use and store in reserve for personal defense. I wont use any used brass for this purpose.

I have a very good chemistry and physics background and understanding.

So i know the following.
The hotter the load... the less life I will have on my Brass. Also practicing with lighter loads will have less recoil and different accuracy, then the hotter loads. So when actually needing the hotter load for personal defense we might not be ready for the difference i. Aim needed or a higher then we are used to recoil. So i would prefer to “practice” my target shooting at the same or close to the same loads, including same weight of bullet.

My bullets i wish to use will be FMJRN and Lehigh Defense solid copper Xtreme penetrator/defense controlled fracturing and maximum expansion.

I also have several 9mm, 45acp, 45lc, 45-70 guns that i will use these rounds in. And in one example the 45lc. I have one gun that needs standard pressure 14k psi rounds and the other 45lc gun can handle 30k psi rounds. I also wish to load +p and non +p rounds for boyh 9mm and 45acp.
Also the 45-70 is a new gun and can handle the hotter 30k-40k psi rounds too

My goals:
1. I wish to keep all costs at as minimum as possible

2. To obtain the hottest loads possible,
For rounds for each gun.

3. To keep reloading and change over of powder as fee as possible and to keep the number of different powders i have to buy at a minimum too. Currently i have Power Pistol, Silouhete, and IMR4198

Like i said i have several handloading manuals.

So here is my question.

Each manual lists a minimum and maximum load. Not all the manuals have the pressure these loads generate. Even in test conditions.

So how is it I determine what the maximum load i should use for each of guns/caliber? I have read that i shouldnt start at maximum load, and should test first. How do I test? This is what i cant find a how to on, especially with using different guns.

Second... if i am in the middle of say loading 45lc and i want to change from one bullet to another. (FmJRN to the Lehigh defense Xtreme Defense) they list different powders. How can i use the same powder without switching?

Third how do i determine what the maximumm load each of my guns can handle?

 

[Rusty Gun]

Wow lots of questions here. First off you should consider “ladder” loads where you start with an average or moderate load and gradually add small amounts of powder shooting 10-12 rounds with each rung on the ladder watching for signs of over pressure. These will be flat primers, split cases, leaded barrels and other things. The best route is get a cronograph and shoot your reloads to determine how fast your projectiles are moving. If you don’t have that you are guessing and you need to use only published data for your own safety. That speed in feet per second (FPS) will change with different guns and change dramatically with different Bullets.
Do not change Bullets (either weight or profile) without changing powder charge and seating depth.

By the questions you are asking I am going to strongly suggest you find a mentor that has reloaded for a while. You seem to have the right ideas but are missing a lot of details. Missing those details could be very dangerous if you want to move to max loads.

Please be careful you are making small explosive devices and I would hate to hear about your injuries on the evening news.

 

[popper]

You don't need hot loads!!!! Real word tests show for SD, anything but 25ACP is very effective. Use starting loads from a powder or supplier or published loading manual. LE use rifles as their pistols don't have optical sights and they aren't that good of shots. This is DOCUMENTED. No offense intended. Once fired brass is fine, thousands of rounds and no 'bad' cases - well, one C 40SW that was a known bad batch. Save your $$. Perfect you technique on 45ACP. Then move to the others. Once you learn the technique you know how to do the others, no problem. Load small (10-20) test and do some more. Pulling mistakes isn't fun.

 

[mcunningham615]

I am new to reloading. I am doing as much research as i can and have dowloaded several reloading manuals.

I also got Hornady AP press and all the dies etc... I am going to be reloading 9mm, 45acp, 45colt, 454 casull, & 45-70.

I have two reasons for handloading.

1. Is to lower cost of ammunition so i can save money &/or fire more rounds in target practice.

2. To provide the best load possible when needing the ammo for self defense with humans &/or animals. Meaning i want to use the “hottest” load possible. I will use new starline brass for all actual ammo i use and store in reserve for personal defense. I wont use any used brass for this purpose.

I have a very good chemistry and physics background and understanding.

So i know the following.
The hotter the load... the less life I will have on my Brass. Also practicing with lighter loads will have less recoil and different accuracy, then the hotter loads. So when actually needing the hotter load for personal defense we might not be ready for the difference i. Aim needed or a higher then we are used to recoil. So i would prefer to “practice” my target shooting at the same or close to the same loads, including same weight of bullet.

My bullets i wish to use will be FMJRN and Lehigh Defense solid copper Xtreme penetrator/defense controlled fracturing and maximum expansion.

I also have several 9mm, 45acp, 45lc, 45-70 guns that i will use these rounds in. And in one example the 45lc. I have one gun that needs standard pressure 14k psi rounds and the other 45lc gun can handle 30k psi rounds. I also wish to load +p and non +p rounds for boyh 9mm and 45acp.
Also the 45-70 is a new gun and can handle the hotter 30k-40k psi rounds too

My goals:
1. I wish to keep all costs at as minimum as possible

2. To obtain the hottest loads possible,
For rounds for each gun.

3. To keep reloading and change over of powder as fee as possible and to keep the number of different powders i have to buy at a minimum too. Currently i have Power Pistol, Silouhete, and IMR4198

Like i said i have several handloading manuals.

So here is my question.

Each manual lists a minimum and maximum load. Not all the manuals have the pressure these loads generate. Even in test conditions.

So how is it I determine what the maximum load i should use for each of guns/caliber? I have read that i shouldnt start at maximum load, and should test first. How do I test? This is what i cant find a how to on, especially with using different guns.

Second... if i am in the middle of say loading 45lc and i want to change from one bullet to another. (FmJRN to the Lehigh defense Xtreme Defense) they list different powders. How can i use the same powder without switching?

Third how do i determine what the maximumm load each of my guns can handle?

I hear this all the time from new reloaders, they want hot loads. I have been reloading for more years than I can remember and more than 15 different calibers, both rifle and pistol and have tried literally hundreds of different load combinations. I usually start at the lower recommended loads and work up. In all the load combinations I've tried, there is only one that I load up to max pressure. That particular firearm, a 7MM mag loves the hot load. In ALL other cases, both rifle and pistol, my most accurate loads usually are around 93% to 97% of max loads. There are tons of other considerations for EACH FIREARM and bullet/powder/primer/case combination to consider. Things to consider are the freebore, barrel harmonics, barrel length and twist rate, powder burn rates, and the list goes on. It's not going to matter so much if that 45 ACP is traveling at 900 fps or 950 fps or the .270 is at 3000 fps or 2800 fps. If your load is accurate and you hit where you're aiming is what matters. I reload for accuracy. If I just wanted hot loads, I'd just buy factory ammo. A load that's good in one gun will not necessarily be good in another. Example, I have 4, 30-06 rifles I load for. None of them shoot the same powder/bullet/primer combo. Guess what I'm trying to say is if you're willing to experiment SAFELY, you will find the best load for each gun. The real satisfaction of reloading comes from those groups that are tighter than any factory ammo.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Younggun]

For self defense I highly doubt a bad guy will notice the difference between a standard load and a load that's on the verge of sending your slide back in to your face.

No need to take such risks. Especially being new to relaoding. Find the load that functions best. Or just buy self defense ammo. Not like you will burn through much of it anyways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I hear this all the time from new reloaders, they want hot loads. I have been reloading for more years than I can remember and more than 15 different calibers, both rifle and pistol and have tried literally hundreds of different load combinations. I usually start at the lower recommended loads and work up. In all the load combinations I've tried, there is only one that I load up to max pressure. That particular firearm, a 7MM mag loves the hot load. In ALL other cases, both rifle and pistol, my most accurate loads usually are around 93% to 97% of max loads. There are tons of other considerations for EACH FIREARM and bullet/powder/primer/case combination to consider. Things to consider are the freebore, barrel harmonics, barrel length and twist rate, powder burn rates, and the list goes on. It's not going to matter so much if that 45 ACP is traveling at 900 fps or 950 fps or the .270 is at 3000 fps or 2800 fps. If your load is accurate and you hit where you're aiming is what matters. I reload for accuracy. If I just wanted hot loads, I'd just buy factory ammo. A load that's good in one gun will not necessarily be good in another. Example, I have 4, 30-06 rifles I load for. None of them shoot the same powder/bullet/primer combo. Guess what I'm trying to say is if you're willing to experiment SAFELY, you will find the best load for each gun. The real satisfaction of reloading comes from those groups that are tighter than any factory ammo.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

All of that makes perfect sense. I of course want to do things safely.

What i havent found yet, is a clear answer on:

1. How do i know i have “overloaded” with to much powder.

2. For storage reasons in regards to just space. I would like to keep purchase of powders down to as few as possible. Problem i am coming across is that it seems that for the bullet and caliber combinations. That I willd end up with about 5 different powders. Uggg.
Lol

3. I have been using factory Lehigh Defense ammo and I love it. I have figured i can load my own Lehigh proejectiles and save money. They have load tables that all include what powder and grains are used in their factory loads. So for the most part, at least with Those projectiles i can match exactly with what they load their factory ammo.

4. The problem comes with the various FMJRN projectiles that I will use. I habe received from from Hornady, the 185gr 45acp FtX, 2300 rounds, as well as from berry and Rainier 9mm, 45 colt, 45acp FMJRN to use. Trying to simplify things with using as few different powders as possible.

I know i dont need to use the hottest loads possible as 150fps or even less really isnt going to make that much difference in a projectile damage on the subject (animal or human) when being used in self defense.

Where i am finding the biggest issue is finding tables for 45 colt in 14k and 30k preasure loads. Like i said i have one gun that cant go above standard preasure loads and one that can handle the extra pressure.

I have ordered a chronagraph. But how do i use it on a per gun basis to know if i habe a hot or lite load?

 

[TheMailMan]

RTFM. Believe it or not there's a lot of information in those books.

Also, in almost all pistol cases the "classic" high pressure signs don't show up till you're way too far into danger territory.

As a side note I load .38 Spl, .357 Mag, 9mm, 10mm, and .45 AP. I have almost three dozen powders for those cartridges alone.

A chronograph alone isn't going to tell you if you have a "hot" or "light" load.

Now, my last pieces of advice. You choice of bullets is suspect. If all you want is "hot" loads then sell the equipment to an adult and buy Buffalo Bore ammo. RTFM.

 

[Younggun]

Are you downloading full manuals or just load data for a specific cartridge. Pretty much every manual I've found has a ton of info in the first few chapters before it gets to any actual load data.

You can usually look through a manual and find powders that cross over to different cartridges, but it will usually not be the optimum powder choice gor each cartridge or for various bullet weights in each cartridge.

Different weight bullets in the same cartridge will use powders with different burn rates. A fast powder with a heavy bullets can create big problems while offering terrible performance.

There is no magic powder. There are some that work well in many similar cartridges. Especially with different rifle cartidges based on the same case, but you need to read the full manual and then look at all the lod data to find them. If one powder did it all there wouldn't be so many to choose from.

The answer to you powder question is to look at the manual and choose one of the recommended powders. You may find one that works in more places than others and it may or not be the best for any particular combination.

Also, 5 different powders is nothin. That's barely a starter pack, lol. I also have about 15 powders and I do look for functional powders that I can use in multiple cartridges aiming for cheap plinking ammo for the pistols. My rifle cartridges tend to be similar enough that I can use a crossover powder although I still have different powders for different loads and multiple powders for 9mm, 45ACP, .357 mag, and .38 Spc. I chose the powders after trying different options in the manual and have gone through many more powders and loads than what I've settled on.

If 5 powders is too much for the number of load combinations you're considering, you may be dissapointed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TxStetson]

Hell, I have 5 powders just for 44 Magnum.

 

[mcunningham615]

I started loading with the same idea. Use powders that crossover to as many different calibers as possible and keep my powder inventory low. I started with IMR3031, IMR4064, and Bluedot. The more I started reloading the more I realized I needed to try more different powders to get the performance I was looking for . Today I have probably 25 or 30 different powders and almost every different common primer available. The biggest mistake I made was trying to limit myself to just a few different ones like you're trying to do. Stick with just buying 1 pound bottles of different powders until you find stuff you like for a particular load. Use the data available to you in manuals and online. I would stick to reputable sources such as bullet or powder manufacturers data. Using load data from some online forum could be a deadly mistake. As to your question on how do I know if I'm using to much powder. Well, I weigh every powder charge for rifle and about every 10th charge for pistol. Using an RCBS powder measurer and verifying on a Redding scale. My personal goal is to maintain rifle loads to less than 1/10 grain and pistol loads to +/- 1/10 grain. I use a single stage press so it can be slow, but I'll put my loads up against any when it comes to accuracy and consistancy.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[mcunningham615]

As for your question on the 45 colt, I just looked in 3 different reloading manuals. Hornady, Speer, and Sierra. All have load data for both older low pressure loads and the more modern high pressure loads.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[hoghunting]

I started loading with the same idea. Use powders that crossover to as many different calibers as possible and keep my powder inventory low. I started with IMR3031, IMR4064, and Bluedot. The more I started reloading the more I realized I needed to try more different powders to get the performance I was looking for . Today I have probably 25 or 30 different powders and almost every different common primer available. The biggest mistake I made was trying to limit myself to just a few different ones like you're trying to do.

I did the exact same thing, betting many reloaders did too. Thought one or two powders might work for everything, but having about 25 or 30 different powders now too, that thought didn't work out.

 

[Charley]

Just a minor suggestion...for the two different 45 Colt handguns, I would suggest using 2 different brass makers, and mark one of them with a marking pen. Accidently loading the high pressure loading into the low pressure handgun can do bad things. Load data for the standard cup and core bullets you mentioned will be quite different for the all copper/bronze alloy bullets. Very different friction co-efficient, much harder, and very different behavior in the bore. Even with the same bullet weight, what would be considered safe with a cup and core bullet will likely spike pressures through the roof with the harder, longer bronze/copper alloy bullet.
In practical terms, you cannot measure pressure in your reloads. You CAN extrapolate pressure signs, but many other thing can cause the same issues. Flattened primers? Can be higher pressure. Can also be softer primer cups, slightly excessive headspace, too LOW a pressure level, and a dozen or so other things.
To start out, I'd suggest beginning with load data from trusted, published sources, NOT online sources, except data published on line by original sources, such as Hodgdon, Alliant, and similar other manufacturers/distributors.
I'd also suggest picking up and reading a good, general reloading manual, such a Lyman #50. Don't start in the data sections, read about equipment and reloading procedures.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

For self defense I highly doubt a bad guy will notice the difference between a standard load and a load that's on the verge of sending your slide back in to your face.

No need to take such risks. Especially being new to relaoding. Find the load that functions best. Or just buy self defense ammo. Not like you will burn through much of it anyways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I always want to be safe. Im not so worried about using a lite load for self defense from humans. Its self defense of dangerous animals where a hotter load might ne a factor in getting the projectile to penetrate bone or the think skin of the animal.

Are you downloading full manuals or just load data for a specific cartridge. Pretty much every manual I've found has a ton of info in the first few chapters before it gets to any actual load data.

You can usually look through a manual and find powders that cross over to different cartridges, but it will usually not be the optimum powder choice gor each cartridge or for various bullet weights in each cartridge.

Different weight bullets in the same cartridge will use powders with different burn rates. A fast powder with a heavy bullets can create big problems while offering terrible performance.

There is no magic powder. There are some that work well in many similar cartridges. Especially with different rifle cartidges based on the same case, but you need to read the full manual and then look at all the lod data to find them. If one powder did it all there wouldn't be so many to choose from.

The answer to you powder question is to look at the manual and choose one of the recommended powders. You may find one that works in more places than others and it may or not be the best for any particular combination.

Also, 5 different powders is nothin. That's barely a starter pack, lol. I also have about 15 powders and I do look for functional powders that I can use in multiple cartridges aiming for cheap plinking ammo for the pistols. My rifle cartridges tend to be similar enough that I can use a crossover powder although I still have different powders for different loads and multiple powders for 9mm, 45ACP, .357 mag, and .38 Spc. I chose the powders after trying different options in the manual and have gone through many more powders and loads than what I've settled on.

If 5 powders is too much for the number of load combinations you're considering, you may be dissapointed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks.... i think i am coming to that conclusion.

As far as plinking projectiles i am going to be sticking to one projectile for each calliber. 200gr for 45acp, 115 for 9, 250 for 45 colt, 300 for 45-70. Although hornday is giving me free 2300 rounds of their 185gr FTX 45acp. So will shoot yhose up before i switch to the 200gr.

For the lehigh defense rounds, i think i will just stick with using what they use for powder and loads for each projectile and caliber. That will keep things the same and will save me money. I can keep all that down to 5 different powders across all of my calibers.

As far as the plinking rounds (fmjrn) including the free ones from hornady i havent decided exactly what to do yet. The 9mm, the 45acp, and even the 45-70 seem easy enough and i have found good data to start with a figuring out a good load to use, using the “ladder” method.

The 45colt seems to be the one where i having the most difficulty finding data to use for standard pressure and 30k pressure.

I saw somewhere a formula you could use with a chronagraph and published load data to determine if ur overloaded or underloaded. But they didnt explain how to do that.

Like i said for the lehigh defense rounds i will use what they ise for their factory rounds (powder and loads) its now the target rounds to work on.

 

[jrbfishn]

Lot of good info above.
Cheap, Accurate,powerful.
Realistically, in a single caliber, with different bullet weights and the same powder, in a single gun you would be lucky to 2 out of three. From multiple guns, not real likely.
One reason there are so many different powders is that they all give different results with the same bullet. Throw lead, plated, jacketed and leadless into the mix and results can change drastically.
A good reloading manual will tell you what to use, when and why. But especially when and why NOT to use a specific powder.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[jrbfishn]

You can also use smokeless powder load data for black powder conversion cylinders if you can find a reliable source for the data. A little stronger than CA, but not as strong as full bore .45 Colt loads.
Using CA loads in my conversions and my Vaquero. I get more loads per pound, bullets are cheap and just as much fun to shoot.

 

[Younggun]

A chronograph won't really tell you a whole lot when it comes to pressure.

You can have a slow round at very high pressure or a perfectly safe fast load. Lot's of things come in to play such as case capacity, chamber dimensions, throat, bullet jump, etc.

Start out simple and pick things up as you go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I started loading with the same idea. Use powders that crossover to as many different calibers as possible and keep my powder inventory low. I started with IMR3031, IMR4064, and Bluedot. The more I started reloading the more I realized I needed to try more different powders to get the performance I was looking for . Today I have probably 25 or 30 different powders and almost every different common primer available. The biggest mistake I made was trying to limit myself to just a few different ones like you're trying to do. Stick with just buying 1 pound bottles of different powders until you find stuff you like for a particular load. Use the data available to you in manuals and online. I would stick to reputable sources such as bullet or powder manufacturers data. Using load data from some online forum could be a deadly mistake. As to your question on how do I know if I'm using to much powder. Well, I weigh every powder charge for rifle and about every 10th charge for pistol. Using an RCBS powder measurer and verifying on a Redding scale. My personal goal is to maintain rifle loads to less than 1/10 grain and pistol loads to +/- 1/10 grain. I use a single stage press so it can be slow, but I'll put my loads up against any when it comes to accuracy and consistancy.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I do measure accurately. What i meant by knowing if your using to much for the gun. Overloading since i have read that even when u are using less than published max, that depending on the gun that it could still be to much.

 

[oldguy]

2. To obtain the hottest loads possible,
For rounds for each gun.

Always scares me when I see a new person say the above.. Start slow, learn as you go, hot loads are useless in my opinion. Also I've seen new guys start with a
progressive press load 1000 rounds before taking a few to range to try, bingo
they find none of the 1k they loaded function.
Far too many goals at the beginning is a mistake.

 

[Rusty Gun]

2. To obtain the hottest loads possible,
For rounds for each gun.

Always scares me when I see a new person say the above.. Start slow, learn as you go, hot loads are useless in my opinion. Also I've seen new guys start with a
progressive press load 1000 rounds before taking a few to range to try, bingo
they find none of the 1k they loaded function.
Far too many goals at the beginning is a mistake.

Yep. I agree ... wrong goals for a new reloader. Hot loads are the wrong way to start. We are going to hear a news report about the guy that blew up his gun and amputated three fingers with ammo he made in his basement.

I have loaded some hot 357 magnum but I shot hundreds and hundred rounds of mid range reloads before loading a ladder up to max. Made 24 of those rounds and still have 12. Not fun to shoot and I stopped to count my fingers after almost every shot.