Houston police: 4 officers wounded, 2 of 3 suspects dead

[V-Tach]

Wow, some folks are getting really worked up about this case.

That dude is so full of BS and his rhetoric does nothing but inflame the attitudes against LEO's...He claims all Cops are in on it.....what?

The other officers (not the lying scumbag) that were shot weren't "in on it" and damn sure didn't deserve to be shot....as he claims.....the men and women I know (dozens) that are LEO's.... aren't out to oppress anyone....that is just crazy.....there is no grand conspiracy....

I don't see this case as all law enforcement are out of control and we don't need as many of them...pure crap.....

So far all the evidence points to one douche bag.....we should not do what the anti-gunners do and blame everyone with a broad brush..

Guess he would think I'm a boot licker.........so be it.....

 

[deemus]

Search for his last post and read the thread. It was really heated. It looks to me like he got fed up and just rage-quit the forum. I could be completely wrong about that, of course, and if anyone knows him personally and has a more correct story to substitute for my almost-baseless hypothesis, I'd love to hear it.

I do know there was no ban but for whatever reason he's simply not visited TGT in over a year.

Heated, but short. Unless there was more than got deleted.

As others have said, his perspective is missed. You could bank on what he told you. Reminded me of the old Chief.

 

[OFFascist]

News Now Houston put out a video claiming how things went down in the house. He alleges the downed homeowners were left for 2 hours to bleed out. Also while downed and no longer a threat, Tuttle was shot an additional time through a window from the outside.

 

[TxStetson]

Wow, some folks are getting really worked up about this case.

He’s always worked up about something. Isn’t he a member on here?

 

[smittyb]

Isn’t he a member on here?

Say what?

 

[toddnjoyce]

News Now Houston put out a video claiming how things went down in the house. He alleges the downed homeowners were left for 2 hours to bleed out. Also while downed and no longer a threat, Tuttle was shot an additional time through a window from the outside.

This. Is. Horse. Shit.

 

[sharkey]

I wouldn’t call the cops on my kid. The Police aren’t family therapists or drug counselors. They are officers of the Law. Any interaction with police can result in death or imprisonment. Prison’s not a drug treatment program.

If I have a kid with a drug problem I’ll seek help from counselors or therapists, not the cops.

Oh but they are therapists and counselors, more so today than when I did it and I did a lot of counseling and therapy. You wouldn't call the cops on your kids but many do. 911 dispatch doesn't have the luxury of telling people the police won't respond to that. I'm not saying to call or not on your kids (hell, I don't have any). What I am saying is that other people without hope do so all the time.

Fun story - we go out to a domestic and dad opens the door and has a big red mark on his head. He says his 13Y son hit him and wants us to "talk" to him. The primary officer calmly states - "Buddy, if you didn't raise your kid in 13 years, I sure can't do it in 10mins". and we left. It was hilarious but we couldn't do that today. I actually divorced an old couple on a domestic too.

 

[sharkey]

I don't have huge disagreements with you on any general principle but I have found the way you present yourself less than helpful in many cases. I understand that's mostly a question of personal style. As the old saying goes "If you want people to like you, you should become a fireman, not a cop." However, as long as you stick to......I'll be listening to you with an open mind.

I'll also be very interested in seeing your take on how this all progresses over the coming months. How far should blame be spread? If there's one crooked cop ultimately responsible for this, how much blame should be placed on the people overseeing him? On the people that worked beside him and may/should have known not everything was kosher?

What will those determinations say about the culture of this particular law enforcement agency and its component sub-organizations?

There's a hell of a lot to unpack here and it's going to take a long time.

PS for the long-timers here: There are times when TXI is sorely missed, aren't there?

Ben, I am as nice as people allow me to be. That applies here and when I worked the street and when I worked cases at the DA's office. I am willing to be helpful when I can but I come here mostly to pass time when I am waiting at work or watching TV. I am quite aware not everyone thinks like me (that is a shame really) and I am open to opposing thought but if someone here is rude to me well, I am not gonna just pretend it doesn't happen and as a moderator, you know what I am talking about. It's funny you mentioned TXI. I registered a long time ago and posted here initially and didn't always agree with him either. I think my initial outrage came from folks with 0 experience speculating on all types of things about this case they know nothing about before the investigation was even finished.

How much blame should go around? I dunno, like you said, we will have to wait and see. I truly get why mom called and as the story initially came out, it sounded like a text book case of a CI buy, warrant application, and warrant service where the suspects chose to shoot at the entry team. As I stated, I am truly stunned that the "case agent" (I am surprised HPD uses that terminology) would be willing to wreck his career on a lie like that. As I stated, there is no shortage of dope houses to hit in Houston. At a minimum, his supervisor is gonna take a hit but I have no idea how HPD handles their chit. As for the Chief, I think we all think he is an asshat but should he be blamed for this? I don't think so. I imagine he had 0 knowledge of actual day to day operations of the Narc unit. Like most Chiefs, he is an administrator and part politician that answers to the city manager. I am always suspect of Chiefs that are graduates of the famed FBI Academy. I think they get brainwashed. I will always be a huge supporter of Patrol. When I was President of our Patrol Association, our motto was always "First In, Last out". Having worked a brief time on our tactical unit, I have mad respect for the guys willing to bust down a door to arrest bad people, to include dope dealers (I am probably the minority here on that).

What will the determinations say about the culture of HPD? People will make their own determination based on their perspective or lack thereof of HPD in particular and LE in general. Let's be honest, it already sucks. Hell I would never be a LEO now. Cities like Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin, etc. have trouble finding qualified applicants. It is a real problem that will only get worse. Throw in democrat leaders that see LE in a negative light and activist judges setting precedent that favors the defense and well LE will become even more ineffective and civilians will see increased crime and victimization.

 

[craigntx]

The other officers (not the lying scumbag) that were shot weren't "in on it" and damn sure didn't deserve to be shot........

Well, since theres no way to tell the bad cop from the good cop, in the heat of the moment, they kinda are in on it

Let's say I give a guy a ride to the liquor store and unbeknownst to me he robs the place.
I'll catch a case as an accomplice. Guilty until proven innocent

 

[Frank59]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...t-raid-turned-shootout-after-warrant-reviewed

Updated Yesterday

 

[Moonpie]

Good lord. What a wreck this incident is turning into.

 

[jordanmills]

100% of the time he brought verifiable facts to any argument.

I dunno. I remember him arguing with me about TCP 30.05 and claiming that the part about it not applying to someone with a CHL/LTC wasn't really there, or something along those lines.

That said, it's the only time I can recall him being wrong about a claim of fact, and he's posted plenty more good stuff. I saw his recent post, and I hope he posts plenty more.

 

[jordanmills]

This. Is. Horse. Shit.

I think that the moral of the story (okay, one of several) is that you don't rely on a handgun for defending your home. A rifle, preferably in a battle rifle caliber, would seem to be much more effective.

 

[jordanmills]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...t-raid-turned-shootout-after-warrant-reviewed

Updated Yesterday

Clearly the officer at the center of this investigation, like any suspect in a criminal case, is innocent until proven guilty.

Because those the cops that invaded the Tuttle family's home and murdered them on sight sure allowed them due process and considered them innocent until proven guilty.

 

[BillFairbanks]

Because those the cops that invaded the Tuttle family's home and murdered them on sight sure allowed them due process and considered them innocent until proven guilty.

Yet Art thinks it’s our gun rights that are the problem.

https://abc13.com/politics/hpd-chief-acevedo-testifies-about-gun-control-to-congress/5125228/


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[Younggun]

Because those the cops that invaded the Tuttle family's home and murdered them on sight sure allowed them due process and considered them innocent until proven guilty.

So you don’t believe in the right to a fair trial, or do you believe the assumption of innocence should only apply to certain crimes?

Just trying to figure out where you stand.


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[Hoji]

So you don’t believe in the right to a fair trial, or do you believe the assumption of innocence should only apply to certain crimes?

Just trying to figure out where you stand.


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Turn your sarcasm meter on.

 

[txinvestigator]

I dunno. I remember him arguing with me about TCP 30.05 and claiming that the part about it not applying to someone with a CHL/LTC wasn't really there, or something along those lines.

That said, it's the only time I can recall him being wrong about a claim of fact, and he's posted plenty more good stuff. I saw his recent post, and I hope he posts plenty more.

It must have been something else you recall. I am well aware of 30.05. Unless we were discussing why 30.06/07 are necessary. When the CHL law first passed 30.05 didn't except CHL. There are philosophical differences on that impact

 

[Younggun]

Turn your sarcasm meter on.

He was using sarcasm to make a point. I’m just asking him to clarify.





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[V-Tach]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...t-raid-turned-shootout-after-warrant-reviewed

Updated Yesterday

Good that at least one person is calling for a third party investigation.....Texas Rangers would be preferred over the FBI, I would think......FBI has their own credibility problems right now.... I would bet the Rangers are already all over it....