Happened to me!

[candcallen]

Spare mag. That should end the should I or shouldnt I discussion.

Piss poor planning apparently does create an emergency for some people some times.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Doug,

For your sake, please consider not returning to that job.

Who knows what horror may be in store for you.

 

[Texasjack]

I had the painful duty of visiting my father a couple months ago and removing all of his firearms. He has dementia, but of course he thinks his brain is fine. He also thinks my 90 year old, blind mother is a nymphomaniac who is having sex with all the men in town while he's sleeping and that my brother in law who lives 800 miles away is stealing all his valuable antiques. We just buried my mother-in-law after watching dementia turn her into a vegetable over a 3 year period. It's a terrible disease that is hard on everybody who has it and everyone around them.

As for loading the magazine, we all have a tendency to get comfortable doing routine things. Loading, shooting, etc. When the proverbial stuff hits the fan and adrenalin is flowing, everything changes. It's a good idea to prepare for that event. There's no rule that you have to have 12 cartridges in that magazine. If you're under pressure and you can only get 5 in, well that's good enough for the moment. Calm yourself as best you can and focus on the situation. When you're practicing at the range, try a few shots one handed - better yet, use your odd hand. You never know when you might be forced to shoot one handed or use the wrong hand. When sighting in a rifle, take it out of the sandbags or sled before you leave the range and fire a few shots without support. If you practice these type of things, you'll have something to fall back on when you are under pressure.

 

[rotor]

I didn't realize that a post about red flag laws was going to turn into a tough magazines to load post.

Worst mags I have ever seen are Taurus. Can not load without a Maglula. Any automatic I carry a spare mag. You at least had one shot in the chamber right.

This is also why revolvers are a possible choice. Easier to load.

The major problem here is that society no longer has an answer as to how to deal with dangerous dementia patients. In my youth there were state run facilities that could be utilized but many have closed and the laws have changed. How long will it be before this man injures or kills someone and nothing can be done until it happens?

Please put me out of my misery if this happens to me.

 

[Dougw1515]

Doug,

For your sake, please consider not returning to that job.

Who knows what horror may be in store for you.

Right now, and probably for at least a couple of more weeks the husband is in a memory management or something like that program. Then he goes to a behavioral conditioning thingee. Then the wife is busy trying to locate a long term care facility that will take him - that they can afford.

As for not going back to the job. Nah, that's not gonna happen. The wife needs all the help and support she can get right now. Finishing the kitchen is actually a very high priority. It seems people with dementia abhor clutter or at least it has a pretty large impact on the psyche. That's what I've been told. Haven't been told why that is so but the wife tells me when she talks to doctors n' such that's one of the questions she is continually asked "Is the house cluttered". The house is a wreck. Well it's not really a wreck but every room is full. Living room you can not walk in. One bedroom there's two distinct paths to depending on which side of the room you need to get to. The den - has all the kitchen stuff in it. Garage one trail to the front in a two car garage. Pretty cluttered. The wife tries but all her time is taken with caring for the husband. They are forever driving around at all hours of the day and night - La Porte, Pasadena, Deer Park going to meet a guy he works with that needs help. The husband hasn't worked in the last 20 years. He 'was' a VIP for a refinery construction company. Like the head honcho over-all job site manager. Ram-rod.... Git'er done kinna man. He tries to get back to that "safe" area but just can't quite get there. Every so often when he sees me he'll ask "What do you do?" I tell'em I fix things around the house and he's good with that.

My mother is 93 w/macular degeneration. She too has her days but thus far I've been blessed that she only gets ornery every once in awhile.

 

[Dougw1515]

So you gonna press charges against Joe Biden for attacking you?

I would have if it would have helped the wife manage the situation. Unfortunately with his mental state the DA would accept no charges against him. It took the cops 3 hours just to get the OK to transport him to Ben Taub for a mental evaluation. The reason for that is some unrelated bleeding heart group of assholes would, or could, sue the City of Deer Park, the police dept. and anyone else they could mange to for violating this guys civil rights. And just for the record... There's probably around 8-10 years age difference between the husband and myself. It ain't like I'm some spring chicken full'a piss n' vinegar. This guy has a mental problem - health wise he's probably in better shape than I am.

 

[etmo]

There were no real warning signs of what was coming.

And this is the cherry on top, why only trained professionals should deal with the violent mentally ill.

The major problem here is that society no longer has an answer as to how to deal with dangerous dementia patients. In my youth there were state run facilities that could be utilized but many have closed and the laws have changed. How long will it be before this man injures or kills someone and nothing can be done until it happens?

This one is on those of us who were voting Republicans at the time. You may remember, the Carter Administration passed the "Mental Health Systems Act" in 1980, which put government money into state-run facilities for the mentally ill. Then Reagan and us Republicans repealed it the very next year. We were focused on the massive abuses of the system, and as is so often the case, we threw the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm not sure the answer is a government-funded system, but we need some kind of system for the chronically mentally ill...unless you're OK with just killing them all. I could probably be persuaded in that direction, but I'm not as nice as most of you, so the voters probably wouldn't side with me.

Many of us will remember that when we shut down many of those facilities, the homeless problem started to blossom. It's not an easy decision -- it costs a fortune to house and treat people who are complete money pits -- virtually none of them will ever be able to fully repay society for the money spent on them, and many won't be able to repay any of the money spent on them. Also, it was very easy to game the system, and get a bed, 3 meals a day, and no responsibilities, just by lying to some bleeding-heart social worker with a 5th-grade education. That was a big part of the impetus to shut them down.

 

[bbbass]

Thanks to everyone! When I said the husband/wife were arguing I suppose everyone has a mental image of what this means. In this case I suppose it would be better to say they had a disagreement taking place. She was saying it was her in the picture he was insisting it wasn't. There were no real warning signs of what was coming. They weren't shouting or making aggressive postures just disagreeing who was in the picture. I had not a clue as to what subsequently unfolded.

Hmmmm, I'm going to suggest that if you are going to be around those types, you do some research. I say again.... There is NO reason to engage in a disagreement with somebody that has dementia and is easily set off. That is how they are.... the rage center of the brain is too easily stimulated and not able to be controlled because the higher function centers that do that job are disabled. (I could name these but it's not important.)

Soooo, not to be too hard on you, but your participating in that disagreement was putting yourself into a bad situation of which you have very little understanding of the true mental state/condition of this man. You need to stop!

Please take heed on this.

If nothing else, know that a disagreement with a person that has dementia is EXTREMELY frustrating for the person that is mentally challenged. Even if they don't go into a rage, which they are more than likely to do because of brain damage, they feel terrible and embarrassed when proven wrong!! There is no need to win that argument because they won't remember the lesson 2 minutes later, but they will remember the hurt. I was having a discussion with my wife, who is heading to dementia, this morning about a road. We disagreed on what road, where it went, and she insisted the road we were talking about didn't go anywhere, when in fact, it goes up the mountain to a Guard Station. Recognizing that we were both getting frustrated, I backed down... didn't cost me a thing, and my dignity wasn't bruised because I know I don't have anything to prove to a person that has a mental disability. This man's wife is his caregiver right now, but she either hasn't figured out the score, hasn't taken classes or gone to a support group, or she hasn't adapted.

 

[Dougw1515]

Hmmmm, I'm going to suggest that if you are going to be around those types, you do some research. I say again.... There is NO reason to engage in a disagreement with somebody that has dementia and is easily set off. That is how they are.... the rage center of the brain is too easily stimulated and not able to be controlled because the higher function centers that do that job are disabled. (I could name these but it's not important.)

Soooo, not to be too hard on you, but your participating in that disagreement was putting yourself into a bad situation of which you have very little understanding of the true mental state/condition of this man. You need to stop!

Please take heed on this.

If nothing else, know that a disagreement with a person that has dementia is EXTREMELY frustrating for the person that is mentally challenged. Even if they don't go into a rage, which they are more than likely to do because of brain damage, they feel terrible and embarrassed when proven wrong!! There is no need to win that argument because they won't remember the lesson 2 minutes later, but they will remember the hurt. I was having a discussion with my wife, who is heading to dementia, this morning about a road. We disagreed on what road, where it went, and she insisted the road we were talking about didn't go anywhere, when in fact, it goes up the mountain to a Guard Station. Recognizing that we were both getting frustrated, I backed down... didn't cost me a thing, and my dignity was bruised because I know I don't have anything to prove to a person that has a mental disability. This man's wife is his caregiver right now, but she either hasn't figured out the score, hasn't taken classes or gone to a support group, or she hasn't adapted.

This is probably the most helpful and informative post I have ever encountered on the internet. Thank you for taking the time to key it in! Of course you are 100% correct - on all counts. Again, thanks for taking the time to clarify "disagreement". Yes, it absolutely went from being a disagreement to all out war. How true your comments. The wife is continually telling me that "he" doesn't want to make a mistake. Something as simple as putting something in the trash can he has had her confirm that he did it correctly. He doesn't want to make a mistake. Doesn't want to be wrong. Doesn't want to be embarrassed getting caught being wrong. I did not think about it in the terms you've described what actually takes place during the event. But that's exactly how it went down.

Wife ran to the neighbors next door while trying to dial 911. Husband was right behind her. I intercepted him just by stepping in front of him and saying "NO!" Later, as the wife went out the back door he entered the neighbors house through the garage door and began whaling away on the neighbor. I heard, later, that the neighbor ended up putting him in a headlock similar to what I had done. Neighbor is similar in age to "him".

There's much I could reveal but no real need to. I will pass along to the wife to join a support group to help her though this. I was there today and she said "Doug, I feel like I'm abandoning him!" I simply told her what she's doing is the best thing for him. She agreed. She tends to listen to me so maybe she'll actually join a support group. I can only hope!

 

[bbbass]

This is probably the most helpful and informative post I have ever encountered on the internet. Thank you for taking the time to key it in! Of course you are 100% correct - on all counts. Again, thanks for taking the time to clarify "disagreement". Yes, it absolutely went from being a disagreement to all out war. How true your comments. The wife is continually telling me that "he" doesn't want to make a mistake. Something as simple as putting something in the trash can he has had her confirm that he did it correctly. He doesn't want to make a mistake. Doesn't want to be wrong. Doesn't want to be embarrassed getting caught being wrong. I did not think about it in the terms you've described what actually takes place during the event. But that's exactly how it went down.

Wife ran to the neighbors next door while trying to dial 911. Husband was right behind her. I intercepted him just by stepping in front of him and saying "NO!" Later, as the wife went out the back door he entered the neighbors house through the garage door and began whaling away on the neighbor. I heard, later, that the neighbor ended up putting him in a headlock similar to what I had done. Neighbor is similar in age to "him".

There's much I could reveal but no real need to. I will pass along to the wife to join a support group to help her though this. I was there today and she said "Doug, I feel like I'm abandoning him!" I simply told her what she's doing is the best thing for him. She agreed. She tends to listen to me so maybe she'll actually join a support group. I can only hope!

Thanx for not getting defensive about what I posted. I am truly coming from a place of having experience, not professionally... just living as a caregiver, and read a few books on the physiology/neurology of how the brain centers work... and how they don't work in a dementia patient, somebody with Alzheimer's, or those traumatic brain injuries that happen thru accident or war. Glad you found my post helpful!!!

Yes, I hope the wife is able to get some help!!! Going thru this with a loved one is made much easier with knowledge and the support of others that are going thru the same, guided by professionals.

Best regards,

bb

 

[innominate]

Yeah... I think the wife is aware of that. Have y'all checked any government agencies like Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid for long term financial assitance? They have insurance but that's probably only going to take'em so far. As I stated this guy is very healthy and unless something unforeseen happens I suspect he's going to be with us for quite some time.



Thank you! It for sure was one of those "Well I ain't nev'a...." moments!

Regular insurance doesn't cover this type of care. Unfortunately it's private pay or medicaid. Not all facilities have spots for medicaid patients. The ones that do usually only have a few beds set aside and there is probably a wait list for those beds. Fortunately for us my dad's retirement income was enough to pay for assisted living. We found a house about 10 minutes away that was run by a physician. Didn't even know this type of place existed. The doc came by everyday with her kids. It was a 4 bedroom house. The time my dad was there he was the only resident. The other lady that stayed there full time was the assistant.

 

[dapakattack]

I think this is a good discussion to have. All of us are not getting any younger and may find ourselves in a similar situation down the road. Now that I am reaching 50, I find that I take more interest in my and my wife's future care. This thread has made me think about Long Term Insurance and looking into it further. Maybe something I should bring up to my HR rep as something my company could offer or at least make employees aware of.

https://www.aplaceformom.com/planning-and-advice/articles/long-term-care-costs

Those that are members of AARP or AMAC, do they advertise such insurance or at least information on the subject?

 

[toddnjoyce]

I think this is a good discussion to have. All of us are not getting any younger and may find ourselves in a similar situation down the road. Now that I am reaching 50, I find that I take more interest in my and my wife's future care. This thread has made me think about Long Term Insurance and looking into it further. Maybe something I should bring up to my HR rep as something my company could offer or at least make employees aware of.

https://www.aplaceformom.com/planning-and-advice/articles/long-term-care-costs

Those that are members of AARP or AMAC, do they advertise such insurance or at least information on the subject?

LTC is a tough market unless you have access to the Federal LTC program. BL: in the beginning the premiums were too low, the coverage too gold plated, and the bills too high. Now, the market has to recover those losses so premiums are high and coverage is much lower.

It’s a good idea to really research whether such a product is ‘right’ for you. Here’s a good place to start.

Long term care probability or the risk you'll need long term insurance

probability, long term care, long term insurance, information, cost, quote

www.aaltci.org

 

[oldag]

I chunk everything on a bed and start putting the magazine back together. I get that done and I figure I need to reload it. Here is one of 'my' lessons of the day. With the adrenaline flowing my hands were shaking.

Good example for a side lesson here. For all those folks that maintain "it's all about perfect shot placement", this is one of the reasons you can't count on perfect shot placement in the real world.

 

[bbbass]

Good example for a side lesson here. For all those folks that maintain "it's all about perfect shot placement", this is one of the reasons you can't count on perfect shot placement in the real world.

And that is why practice/training under stress/duress is critically important!

People go out and buy a handgun. Then they load it up and put it in the nightstand or on their belt... never having shot at all, or maybe a box or two of slow fire at the range. They don't understand the effects of adrenaline in perilous situations.

Or those that buy a hunting rifle, put a box thru it to sight it in... then never practice shooting offhand, etc. Just go out and start flinging shots at critters.

Muscle memory... probably preaching to the choir here on TGT, but the body will tend to repeat what is practiced, that is what you need under the influence of adrenaline!!!

 

[TipBledsoe]

LTC is a tough market unless you have access to the Federal LTC program. BL: in the beginning the premiums were too low, the coverage too gold plated, and the bills too high. Now, the market has to recover those losses so premiums are high and coverage is much lower.

It’s a good idea to really research whether such a product is ‘right’ for you. Here’s a good place to start.

Long term care probability or the risk you'll need long term insurance

probability, long term care, long term insurance, information, cost, quote

www.aaltci.org

Ironically I had those same thoughts this week completing my company's annual healthcare open enrollment period elections. I'm 55 now and I sure value health insurance more than I did 20-30 years ago.

When we're in our prime of life, thinking we are indestructible, we don't realize just how easily and quickly one can loose thier health and possibly die. I had such an encounter (fortunately?) last year and now I hold a much higher value of health insurance, and the value of life without taking it for granted.

This thread has also hit home, in that my mother passed due to Alzheimer's disease which I understand is hereditary. I don't want to be the guy in the OP story. If that road is ahead of me, I hope I have the sense of mind and the opportunity to put a bullet through my head before my guns are taken away and I become someone who I am not.

 

[rotor]

Ironically I had those same thoughts this week completing my company's annual healthcare open enrollment period elections. I'm 55 now and I sure value health insurance more than I did 20-30 years ago.

When we're in our prime of life, thinking we are indestructible, we don't realize just how easily and quickly one can loose thier health and possibly die. I had such an encounter (fortunately?) last year and now I hold a much higher value of health insurance, and the value of life without taking it for granted.

This thread has also hit home, in that my mother passed due to Alzheimer's disease which I understand is hereditary. I don't want to be the guy in the OP story. If that road is ahead of me, I hope I have the sense of mind and the opportunity to put a bullet through my head before my guns are taken away and I become someone who I am not.

Please don't end it with a gun. Feeds the anti-gunner statistics. Seriously, we treat our pets better than our relatives. I don't want to end up like that dementia case but I would prefer a simple go to sleep not wake up death. I also don't want my relatives suffering any legal consequences for my passing.

 

[Dougw1515]

I've told all my children, at one time or another, and anyone else that will listen, there truly is a fate worse than death. Many doubts those words.

 

[TipBledsoe]

[USpER=29952]@rotor[/USER] - right you are sir

Edit: Morbid as it is, perhaps much better planning is needed. I don't believe insurance will pay out in cases of suicide, and I don't believe the medical profession will help out with planned euthenization. So @rotor have you a suggestion that's a better plan? Certain to work while also hooefully relieving remaining family of legal consequences?

 

[GoPappy]

Please don't end it with a gun. Feeds the anti-gunner statistics. Seriously, we treat our pets better than our relatives. I don't want to end up like that dementia case but I would prefer a simple go to sleep not wake up death. I also don't want my relatives suffering any legal consequences for my passing.

When I had motorcycles, I told my wife that if I got Alzheimer’s to put me on my motorcycle without a helmet, point me toward the nearest brick wall and pin the throttle back.