Shotgun law?

[MR Redneck]

I lots my shotgun laws and cant find them. Thought they would be a sticky in this thread but I dont see nothin.
Can somebody help fix this problem.

 

[Bithabus]

Specifically?

 

[MR Redneck]

Length, grips, just the common dress.

 

[matefrio]

Don't have a barrel length less than 18 inches (46 cm) and an overall length less than 26 inches.

Double check it's not a destructive device.

And not a zip gun. "piece of pipe with nail and rubber band"

I can't think of anything else off hand.

 

[MR Redneck]

Don't have a barrel length less than 18 inches (46 cm) and an overall length less than 26 inches.

Double check it's not a destructive device.

And not a zip gun. "piece of pipe with nail and rubber band"

I can't think of anything else off hand.

Thank's, I thought that was right. Somebody told me my shotgun was illegal because it has a "homemade" pistol grip and a 18" barrel.

 

[matefrio]

You may need treat it as a handgun under Texas law. So no open carry like a shotgun and technically you have a handgun not a shotgun.
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.
Federal law doesn't have the words to describe a pistol gripped shotgun. You must be over 21 to buy one from an FFL as they aren't a shotgun.

Firearms with pistol grips attached:
The definition of a shotgun under the GCA, 18 U.S.C.
§ 921(a)(5), is “a weapon designed or redesigned, made or
remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed
or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of
an explosives to fire through a smooth bore either a number
of ball shot or single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
Under the GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29)(A), handgun
means “a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to
Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within
the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though
they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition. For example,
firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of
the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.
A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is
not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore,
is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or
shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older.
Additionally, interstate controls apply. The licensee and
transferee must be residents of the same State.
Other questions raised pertain to entries made in the
licensee’s required records with respect to firearm “type.”
These entries should indicate the firearm

 

[MR Redneck]

Now thats interesting.
You would have to be a badass to shoot my shotgun with one hand. I use both hands simply to keep controll of it. Actually you can shoot a shotgun with a full stock with one hand but that just isnt efficent.
You made a good "legal" point so I think i'll get me a folding stock. One less issue to deal with wont hurt me at all.

 

[nalioth]

Now thats interesting.
You would have to be a badass to shoot my shotgun with one hand. I use both hands simply to keep controll of it. Actually you can shoot a shotgun with a full stock with one hand but that just isnt efficent.
You made a good "legal" point so I think i'll get me a folding stock. One less issue to deal with wont hurt me at all.

Out of the hundreds of thousands of pistol gripped shotguns out there, there has not been one prosecution for "illegal handgun".

A pistol gripped shotgun legally isn't a handgun by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[matefrio]

Out of the hundreds of thousands of pistol gripped shotguns out there, there has not been one prosecution for "illegal handgun".

A pistol gripped shotgun legally isn't a handgun by any stretch of the imagination.

Not so certain there. Federal interpretation of the law states adding a pistol grip makes it a one handed and classifies it different than a shotgun with a stock.

Texas law, if you've modified it to be fired with one hand... It's a handgun.

"Everyone is doing it" isn't quite the defensive tactic you need to defend yourself from prosecution or a grand jury.

 

[nalioth]

Adding a pistol grip to a shotgun does not make it "designed for use with one hand".

I don't think you'll find any expert witness who'll testify that it does.

It's balderdash, and further, FUD.

 

[Bithabus]

Not so certain there. Federal interpretation of the law states adding a pistol grip makes it a one handed and classifies it different than a shotgun with a stock.

Texas law, if you've modified it to be fired with one hand... It's a handgun.

"Everyone is doing it" isn't quite the defensive tactic you need to defend yourself from prosecution or a grand jury.

A shotgun with an 18 inch barrel and pistol grip is not "modified to be fired with one hand". There is also relevant case law: Ford v. State, 868 S.W.2d 875 - Google Scholar

Vasquez v. State, 649 S.W.2d 647 - Google Scholar

 

[matefrio]

Adding a pistol grip to a shotgun does not make it "designed for use with one hand".

I don't think you'll find any expert witness who'll testify that it does.

It's balderdash, and further, FUD.

Feds think so.....

 

[matefrio]

A shotgun with an 18 inch barrel and pistol grip is not "modified to be fired with one hand". There is also relevant case law: Ford v. State, 868 S.W.2d 875 - Google Scholar

Vasquez v. State, 649 S.W.2d 647 - Google Scholar

Didn't look at case law.... Good catch.

Feds though think that a shotgun sold with a pistol grip is made to be fired from the hand therefore can't be sold as a shotgun. See above. But with case law in Texas it is not a handgun.

 

[M. Sage]

Feds think so.....

No, they think that it's not meant to be fired from the shoulder. The semi-auto M1919s out there are not classified rifles, but only a fool would argue that they're handguns.

An otherwise legal shotgun with no stock on it is a long gun, just not a shotgun. Ditto with a rifle without a stock. The ATF classifies them as "other".

It's not a handgun.

 

[Bithabus]

Didn't look at case law.... Good catch.

Feds though think that a shotgun sold with a pistol grip is made to be fired from the hand. See above. But with case law in Texas it is not a handgun.

Those cases are both concerning illegally modified weapons: an unregistered SBR and an SBS. Appellate court ruled in both cases that the weapons, although they have been modified to be fired with one hand, still fit the definition of "rifle" and "shotgun", and as such the defendant can be prosecuted under 46.05. The question of whether either weapon could also be considered a handgun was not directly addressed, but it is not a distant point of logic. I'd rather have a case where a person was arrested for 46.02 while carrying a registered AOW, say a .410 with pistol grip and 6 inch barrel (shotgun that has clearly been modified to be fired with one hand) but I couldn't find any.

Regardless of the case law there's no way an ordinary prudent person would think a pistol grip shotgun with an 18 inch barrel is "modified to be fired with one hand". Remember this is different from "can be fired with one hand".

 

[MR Redneck]

Well, I'll leave er be then.
If I get thrown in jail again, im going to be pissed at all of yall...
This is a good topic to discuss though.

 

[nalioth]

If you want to be really convoluted, you could say any firearm was designed to be fired with one hand.

After all, how many guns do you know where the trigger was designed to actuate with simultaneous right and left finger operations?


Take the FUD elsewhere, please.

 

[MR Redneck]

I can shoot just about any gun I own with one hand. That doesnt mean they were designed for it.

 

[Texas1911]

ATF in 2010 sent out training to FFLs that clarifies the pistol grip shotgun issue. Originally they were treated as pistols by the ATF, at least the inspectors at the San Antonio branch. (That's also an issue ... 20 answers from 20 people). However now they are classified as "other" and must be written down as a "pistol grip firearm".

The pistol grip shotguns are "others" unless the OAL is under 26" (measured with stock extended) and the barrel is 18" or greater, measured with the action closed and a dowel road inserted until it hits the bolt face; from the bolt face to the end of any permanently attached devices (including suppressors / flash hiders / etc.).

If you retain the pistol grip and the length or barrel is reduced below the above limits the gun becomes an "AOW". It is essentially a smooth-bore pistol at that point. Manufacture of an AOW costs $200 (stamp), but transfer of an AOW is $5 (stamp). A properly licensed manufacturer can apply for a taxless manufacture to convert your shotgun into an AOW, and then charge you $5 for the transfer stamp. You cannot put a stock on an AOW registered shotgun, as it then becomes an SBS.

If you stock the shotgun or it has a stock on it and the barrel is under 18" then it becomes an SBS (Short Barrel Shotgun). That's a $200 manufacture stamp.

 

[nalioth]

The pistol grip shotguns are "others" unless the OAL is under 26" (measured with stock extended) and the barrel is 18" or greater, measured with the action closed and a dowel road inserted until it hits the bolt face; from the bolt face to the end of any permanently attached devices (including suppressors / flash hiders / etc.).

The revenuers recently admitted that you could have a factory PGO shotty with a sub-18" barrel and still be legal under the law. The baseline is that it be 26" OAL and have been manufactured as a PGO (other firearm) and never had a butt stock installed. As there are no barrel length laws for "other firearms", only the law requiring 26" OAL applies.

No tax stamp needed in the above situation.


http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/PistolGrippedShotgunLike.pdf

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf