Tyler, Texas shootout

[LoneStarSoldier]

Good Samaritan Gun Use - Opinion - FOXNews.com

If you don't already know about this case, you should read it and educate yourselves. A man who was a CHL/handgun wielding Texan was able to save at least one life because his state allowed him to carry a measure of self-defense on him. I think EVERYONE should get this chance. The chance to go down fighting, and not be a helpless sheep to a pack of wolves. I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with John Lott or his extensive research, books, and studies on the effect of CHL laws in states and their relation to the drop of violent crime, but he's certainly someone fighting for people's rights to be able to defend themselves.

 

[txinvestigator]

His CHL and his state "allowing him to carry a measure of self defense" really had nothing to do with this. He was at HOME when he heard the commition and went from there to intervene.

He left the safety of his home, and he did not have to die going down fighting. That said, his actions were heroic, he traded his life for another.

 

[matefrio]

If you make the choice to leave safety and confront an armed bad guy, grab a rifle or shotgun if possible and engage from cover.

 

[Texas1911]

Brave guy, and someone willing to get involved to help others, but I'm afraid he let emotion overcome the reality of the situation. His first round hit the shooter, and the shooter turned to return fire. Rather than perform a failure to stop drill he sought cover, the gunman then closed ranks, he popped up and shot the shooter again in the center mass at least once. Shooter then engages him with his rifle and he falls; shooter then finishes him off.

Lessons Learned
1) Failure to Stop Drills
2) Active Shooters may be Armored (Shooter was wearing body armor)
3) Running to a Gun Fight with a Pistol against Modern Battle Rifle in the Open is Suicide
4) Good marksmanship and big bore (.45 ACP) doesn't always win

What he did was pretty stupid, but it was a noble deed and I don't really fault him for doing it one bit. He rolled the dice, and had the shooter not been armored he would have done much more.

 

[PopsXD9sc]

Sad events surrounding the shooting for sure. Knowing Mark he wasn't the type to back down or away. I feel sure he did what he thought was right and even though slightly misguided in his actions; he should be remembered as selfless rather than stupid.

 

[MR Redneck]

Good Samaritan Gun Use - Opinion - FOXNews.com

If you don't already know about this case, you should read it and educate yourselves. A man who was a CHL/handgun wielding Texan was able to save at least one life because his state allowed him to carry a measure of self-defense on him. I think EVERYONE should get this chance. The chance to go down fighting, and not be a helpless sheep to a pack of wolves. I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with John Lott or his extensive research, books, and studies on the effect of CHL laws in states and their relation to the drop of violent crime, but he's certainly someone fighting for people's rights to be able to defend themselves.

To hell with a CHL, if someone is shooting the place up, ARM Yourself.
No citizen without criminal restrictions should have their rights denied.
If the right to carry in Texas wasnt so"Elitist" more of those people would have been able to defend themselves.
This is a sad loss for all good Texans. Too bad more people werent able to shoot back.

 

[Dcav]

The guy probably saved lives by engaging the active shooter even for a few moments until more police arrived. IIRC the shooter was killed by a Ar shot to the head by an officer. Anyone thats puts themselves in harms way to prevent or attempt to prevent harm to others is a selfless act and should be commended.

 

[Rum Runner]

Good article, sad result. Props to him though for not just standing by and watching.

"AK-47 or high-powered rifle" Since when is an AK a "high powered rifle"?

"if it hadn't been for Mr. Wilson, [Arroyo's son] would be dead." and "Arroyo had also shot his 22-year-old son and was about ready to shoot him again from very close range when Wilson fired his gun"

How does one get so fucked in the head that they try to kill their own son?

 

[M. Sage]

Brave guy, and someone willing to get involved to help others, but I'm afraid he let emotion overcome the reality of the situation. His first round hit the shooter, and the shooter turned to return fire. Rather than perform a failure to stop drill he sought cover, the gunman then closed ranks, he popped up and shot the shooter again in the center mass at least once. Shooter then engages him with his rifle and he falls; shooter then finishes him off.

Lessons Learned
1) Failure to Stop Drills
2) Active Shooters may be Armored (Shooter was wearing body armor)
3) Running to a Gun Fight with a Pistol against Modern Battle Rifle in the Open is Suicide
4) Good marksmanship and big bore (.45 ACP) doesn't always win

What he did was pretty stupid, but it was a noble deed and I don't really fault him for doing it one bit. He rolled the dice, and had the shooter not been armored he would have done much more.

5) If you're leaving home to go out where you know there's trouble, bring a rifle.

 

[matefrio]

5) If you're leaving home to go out where you know there's trouble, bring a rifle.

and engage from cover.

 

[Texas1911]

and engage from cover.

and bring 5 other friends with rifles.

 

[ryantx23]

Sad that the CHL holder / citizen lost his life, sometimes shit just goes to hell in a hand basket and that happens. As with what so many others above have stated, he should have grabbed a long gun as he headed out the door. Your sidearm is just a tool to tide you over until you can pickup your rifle. With that being said, a lot of gun fights can still be won with a handgun, but the proper training is needed to win it. What would have happened had he put a .45 round in the bad guy's pelvic girdle? Gunfight is over, pretty much guaranteed. There is a lot to learn from situations like this, both good and bad. The bad guy was only wearing an old military flak jacket. Had the CHL holder / citizen picked up his .30-.30 or other deer rifle or shotgun with slugs, he would have won the battle. Kudo's to Rusty Jacks for ending the madness with his patrol rifle.

 

[Renegade]

His CHL and his state "allowing him to carry a measure of self defense" really had nothing to do with this. He was at HOME when he heard the commition and went from there to intervene.

Actually it may have cost him his life. Had there been no CHL he might of had a rifle nearby instead of his carry pistol.

He engaged the BG the same way I see 99.99% of people train (as if it did not shoot back), sad, but no surprise he was killed.

 

[RetArmySgt]

Sad that the CHL holder / citizen lost his life, sometimes shit just goes to hell in a hand basket and that happens. As with what so many others above have stated, he should have grabbed a long gun as he headed out the door. Your sidearm is just a tool to tide you over until you can pickup your rifle. With that being said, a lot of gun fights can still be won with a handgun, but the proper training is needed to win it. What would have happened had he put a .45 round in the bad guy's pelvic girdle? Gunfight is over, pretty much guaranteed. There is a lot to learn from situations like this, both good and bad. The bad guy was only wearing an old military flak jacket. Had the CHL holder / citizen picked up his .30-.30 or other deer rifle or shotgun with slugs, he would have won the battle. Kudo's to Rusty Jacks for ending the madness with his patrol rifle.

The bolded part i disagree with. That may be what most people are taught or repeat most often but the pistol is an effective combat weapon. Due to that common statement most people to practice with a pistol they way they should. The only thing i think the Germans did right in WWII is prove this point. Every soldier was issued a sidearm and trained to use it as well as they were trained with the rifles. We as a whole need to lose this misconception about handguns.

In this case a shot to the pelvic cradle as you said, or the inner theigh, the side of the rib cage (would not be protected by 99% of vest) or head would have all be show stoppers. Just like in hunting know the anatomy of the target and use it effectively.

 

[ryantx23]

The bolded part i disagree with. That may be what most people are taught or repeat most often but the pistol is an effective combat weapon. Due to that common statement most people to practice with a pistol they way they should. The only thing i think the Germans did right in WWII is prove this point. Every soldier was issued a sidearm and trained to use it as well as they were trained with the rifles. We as a whole need to lose this misconception about handguns.

In this case a shot to the pelvic cradle as you said, or the inner theigh, the side of the rib cage (would not be protected by 99% of vest) or head would have all be show stoppers. Just like in hunting know the anatomy of the target and use it effectively.

Without trying to start an argument, Like I said further down in the post, if you have proper training a pistol can be a VERY effective fighting tool. Just not as effective as a rifle. It just lacks the punch that a rifle has and that extra punch in lethality does count. Also a rifle is a more precision use tool with greater magazine capacity and lots of other benefits. If a person is a proficient pistol shooter, and knows the human anatomy along with vulnerabilities of modern body armor or has the ability to solve problems quickly, think and react under HIGHLY stressful situations they can manage with a handgun. But still taking a pistol up against someone who is semi proficient with a rifle is bad news. Look at the teenage kid who killed two seasoned police officers(one was a SWAT team guy) who only had pistols during a traffic stop. Just google West Memphis Police Sgt. Brandon Paudert and Officer Bill Evans or scumbag Joseph Kane. I would post a link but that could violate the new copyright policy.

 

[txinvestigator]

Actually it may have cost him his life. Had there been no CHL he might of had a rifle nearby instead of his carry pistol.

.

Is that pure speculation or do you have some insight into his thinking? Just curious

 

[Renegade]

Is that pure speculation or do you have some insight into his thinking? Just curious

Just an observation based on talking to other TX gun owners and my own experience.

Prior to CHL law, I had no real reason to have a handgun lying around since I could not carry it. But since carry of a long arm is pretty much unregulated in Texas, I had longarms such as a shotgun and AR nearby in home, in vehicles, etc. I was not alone like this, as many of the TX gun owners I talked about the lack of CHL told me they relied on longarms since they were legal to carry.

One of the unintended consequences of CHL law is people carry handguns but longarms not so much now.

 

[dcfis]

The guy defeated at least 3 handguns here with an AK. A scoped .270 from the balcony would have been a nice response.

 

[M. Sage]

and engage from cover.

And grab your own body armor on the way out the door.

... this article actually makes me feel a little less goofy about having body armor that can handle rifles.

 

[dcfis]

And grab your own body armor on the way out the door.

... this article actually makes me feel a little less goofy about having body armor that can handle rifles.

Do you triple stack ballistic plates for your walk from the car into the mall for fear of snipers?