What is the binary standard for optics?

[hullhullhull]

I think the starting point is scope manufacturer’s reputation. There are some I can’t afford. So they are out. That drops me into the level that I can afford. Then the question becomes, “what am I doing with it?”


There’s some talk of turrets, but not every scope needs to have a turret. If it’s a long range gun, it definitely gets a turret type scope. My shorty AR has an Eotech holographic sight. My 20” AR has a scope, but no turrets on that scope.

Clarity is something that only you can determine, but IMO is very important. When I was buying a tactical scope for a long range rifle, I went to Cabelas. They pulled 6-8 scopes out and I looked through them all.

3 had bad clarity. Out. The others had sufficient clarity. Then 2 of them had reticles I didn’t care for. Came down to two scopes: Vortex and Nikon in the $1k range. Both were equal, but I liked the reticle on the Nikon better so I bought that one.

I was later surprised to find that the Cabelas Covenant 7 line was superb. I bought a scope very close in quality to the Nikon Black 1000 in the Covenant line for $350.

Reality is you will have to spend time with a few scopes in order to find your preferred scope.

But generally brand name is a good place to start, then cull the too expensive brands out and go from there.

Thank you for helping out. If I understand you correctly your minimum standards are
Reputation
Price
Clarity
Reticle
And then somewhere in there turrets sometimes get considered.

With the exception of price, which was more of a conditional criteria based on how flush with cash you happen to be, I didn’t hear any objective ways to evaluate those criteria. If I’m wrong please help me understand.

You came close with clarity saying you looked through several scopes at a retailer and eliminated some. That is just the sort of thing I’m interested in. What about the clarity was substandard or to standard for your choices? Hazy? Dark? Blurry? Distorted? Did the scopes have equal tube and objective diameters?

I’m very interested in your perspective.

 

[hullhullhull]

>

ZEISS Wetzlar

Carl Zeiss AG Jena

If you’e got the bucks, that’s all you need to know !

leVieux

This is the least helpful reply so far.

 

[hullhullhull]

Skip all the hoopla and check what others are using for an intended purposes. Figure your budget, look through some for yourself and make a choice. If you buy according to why, what and where you'll be terribly sorry.



It's like 1911 vs Glock we all know the winner and why. Thank you John B.

I think that is precisely why this question is important. Buying a scope because someone else did when they have no way to objectively make a decision seems foolish. The scope will probably work, but why not use that lump on your shoulders to determine what you need as the minimum standard and then proceed to make a purchase with that informed choice?

1911 vs Glock is a pretty helpful comparison here. Many opinions based on other peoples opinions, but almost no objective analysis based on fact and minimum required performance. Thanks.

 

[Vaquero]

Thank you for helping out. If I understand you correctly your minimum standards are
Reputation
Price
Clarity
Reticle
And then somewhere in there turrets sometimes get considered.

With the exception of price, which was more of a conditional criteria based on how flush with cash you happen to be, I didn’t hear any objective ways to evaluate those criteria. If I’m wrong please help me understand.

You came close with clarity saying you looked through several scopes at a retailer and eliminated some. That is just the sort of thing I’m interested in. What about the clarity was substandard or to standard for your choices? Hazy? Dark? Blurry? Distorted? Did the scopes have equal tube and objective diameters?

I’m very interested in your perspective.

I'm not knocking looking through scopes in a store, if you adjust every one you look through to match parallax and initial focus.
Just don't take what they hand you and base a purchase on whatever setting the last guy left it on.

 

[hullhullhull]

I'm not directly answering any of your inquiries due to my individual and unique optics, or lack thereof, requirements. But watch within the link posted below for answers and recommendations to your post.

https://www.youtube.com/@SageDynamics/videos

Agreed. He is one of the instructors I have taken classes from and that I support through Patreon. Thanks.

 

[hullhullhull]

My criteria is the same as my rifles.
Repeatability and dependability.

Reticles and other things are just preferences.

Right now my favorite scopes are SWFA and Primary Arms.
From a few years back.

Great points!

How do you measure or evaluate the repeatability and/or dependability?

 

[hullhullhull]

I'm not knocking looking through scopes in a store, if you adjust every one you look through to match parallax and initial focus.
Just don't take what they hand you and base a purchase on whatever setting the last guy left it on.

I understand what you are getting at, thanks.

 

[Vaquero]

Great points!

How do you measure or evaluate the repeatability and/or dependability?

It sounds simplistic, but, it hits where it did last time I fired that gun.
Deer rifle? Probably a year ago. Varmint rifle? Probably 3 years.
Target rifles? Several months.

But I know what to expect, and I get the expected result.

99% of the time, a miss is my fault.
It don't happen often.

My deer rifle has a Simmons Whitetail from the mid '80's on it.
I found the hand loads it likes and haven't changed anything since.
Zeroed at 200 yds. It hasn't failed me yet.

(Don't buy a recent build Simmons)

I bought a fixed power 12x from SWFA a few years back.
It sits on a 6mm Creedmoor and dials in and out like a laser.

I don't trust a logo or name.
I trust what's proven worthy of trust.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Yes I am making assumptions. However, assumptions help move the conversation toward truth. Moving on….

Interesting choice if words. Truth is that optics need to be matched to purpose and capability. Both of the shooter and the gun. There’s some .22LR guys swinging some real high fixed power scopes with sunshades seemingly the length of my forearm. And they put 5 or 10 shot groups in one little ragged hole around .240” in diameter. And those scopes are sub-$1K.

Take the venerable ACOG. Fixed 4x with an intelligently designed reticle. If you’re shooting M855 from 100-800 yds. Shoot 55-gr ball or 77-gr SMKs and it’s starts to drop off performance wise. Maybe not much, but enough in certain applications to drive a different choice. And that tritium illuminated reticle doesn’t mesh well with NVGs if that’s part of the requirement.

All those variables come down to what do you need the optic to do for you. Once you define that, you can start researching which optics start to fill your squares.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

I'm not the one asking how to buy a scope. In other words I don't have to.
If you don't like others replies then don't ask on a forum.
With your exuberant list you've made a mountain out of a mole hill.
I'll exit just for you.

 

[leVieux]

This is the least helpful reply so far.

>

Well, I don’t understand optical physics; but I do know that every piece of real ZEISS I’ve ever seen has been excellent.

Zeiss has been the World’s “Gold Standard” for longer than I can recall.

Even in our home, if any other optic is compared to Zeiss; Leupold, Steiner, etc. the superiority of anything Zeiss is obvious.

Sorry if this offends you.

leVieux
.

 

[FireInTheWire]

I think you missed my point entirely.

My apologies

There’s an old saying, study long, study wrong. You are being obtuse about this.

Imho

 

[TexMex247]

To answer your question I'll just say No. Application dictates most things in my opinion. Why not mention the gun/caliber you're trying to outfit? I don't think you're going to be able to create an integer or percent value spreadsheet based on your list of factors.

 

[zackmars]

Yeah, what gun is it going on? What type of shooting? I  love acogs, but I'm not gonna put one on my 10/22, or my hunting rifle.

I don't particularly care for red dots, but I've got one on my pest control 10/22

 

[FireInTheWire]

If you need a standard… Look at what the military is running. That’s my standard. They usually have really good stuff. What are their snipers running? What are the CQB guys running?

There is your answer.

Everything else is a wash

 

[zackmars]

Thank you, good feedback.


Durability seems difficult to evaluate, but I understand what you are getting at. Surviving recoil for a minimum number of rounds perhaps? A minimum number of cycles for moving parts perhaps?

Reputation from the brand or for the specific optic? Seems too reliant on other people. How many people would need to endorse the optic for you to use it? How many to speak against it to avoid it?

Clarity is one I’m very interested in. I hear clarity thrown around consistently, but never with a way to evaluate it for a minimum acceptable threshold. Glass quality in low light was mentioned earlier, which is a good starting point, but not quite the answer I was looking for. How do you determine if clarity is above the minimum you need?

I understand your statement on price.

Thank you.

Acog, and now the VCOG are military issue optics, ACOG's in particular have a somewhat legendary reputation after being so widely fielded in combat the past 20 years.

Both the VCOG and ACOG use forged 7075T6 aluminum bodies and have integrated bases.

Clarity is best judged by yourself by looking through the optic. If it looks like a foggy morning through the optic, but its a perfect day at 1pm outside, something is up. Most optics now a days are pretty clear, it's light transmission that'll get you. Lots of LPVO's get real bad at the upper end of their magnification.

 

[zackmars]

If you need a standard… Look at what the military is running. That’s my standard. They usually have really good stuff. What are their snipers running? What are the CQB guys running?

There is your answer.

Everything else is a wash

This is good advice. Aimpoints, trijicon, Schmidt and Bender might not have all the bells and whistles, but you'll get great optics that can take absurd amounts of punishment

 

[FireInTheWire]

This is good advice. Aimpoints, trijicon, Schmidt and Bender might not have all the bells and whistles, but you'll get great optics that can take absurd amounts of punishment

And I have absolutely none of those optics. But I feel confident in defending my home and property with lesser options. “Standard “ is a gray area. IMHO

But, I look to the military to see how high the bar is.

 

[toddnjoyce]

If you need a standard… Look at what the military is running. That’s my standard. They usually have really good stuff. What are their snipers running? What are the CQB guys running?

There is your answer.

Everything else is a wash

Good advice once you know what you want your optic to do, because DoD determines what they want the optic to do and how much they’ll pay for it, then trial the contenders.

 

[dee]

If you need a standard… Look at what the military is running. That’s my standard. They usually have really good stuff. What are their snipers running? What are the CQB guys running?

There is your answer.

Everything else is a wash

The military tends to use whatever fits into the box that someone has drawn up specifically. That’s why you see different options across the different branches.