Will FL be the next state to pass Constitutional Carry? Gov D says he is all in favor of it
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Of the top ten biggest individual or small group mass murderers (usually one person but no more than 5 people committing murder in a single act) in U.S. history, most did not use guns. There have been bigger mass murders not shown on this list, but those were:
- murders by large groups going after other large groups,
- murders by or with the tacit approval of the U.S. government, or
- murders that took place over a period of time, i.e. not a single act.
- American Airlines 11, 1390 dead by plane crash
- United Airlines 175, 1363 dead by plane crash
- Egypt Air flight 990 out of JFK airport, 217 dead by plane crash
- American Airlines 77, 189 dead by plane crash
- OKC Murrah building, 168 dead by bombing
- Happyland nightclub fire, 87 dead by arson
- Las Vegas concert, 61 dead by shooting
- Orlando nightclub, 50 dead by shooting
- Bath Township, 45 dead by bombing
- Pacific Air 773, 44 dead by plane crash
Note - It's tough to find a reliable, unbiased source for these numbers; this list was compiled from more than one source. If you know of a mass murder meeting the criteria above but not included in this list, please let me know and I'll revise and annotate this post.
ETA - Revised list based on input from jrbfishn.
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I don't remember the specifics.
The worst school mass killing was in the early 1900s. The killer used fire.
Even today, if you really wanted mass casualties, a petroleum based fire bomb with a water soluble accelerant would be far more expediant than a gun. The sprinkler system would actually work against putting out the fire and make it worse faster.
That would also work in any high occupancy scenario with limited exit points.
And you can get all the components at the local gas station, grocery store or Walmart. All without ID or backround check. Even a 12 year old can get them.
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Wasn't in the USA.
I had forgotten about the Happyland club fire. There was only one entrance at street level that fed up a single staircase to the second-floor club. There were no other entrances or exits. The murderer poured a gallon of gas at the bottom of the stairs and set it alight. 87 people died.
I'll re-edit my post, above, to reflect this entry on the list. I can't believe I forgot about it.
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If you can remember it, let me know. I think you may be thinking of the Bath massacre from 1927. I listed that case as 45 deaths from bombing. Actually, it was 44 from bombing and 1 from shooting. The bad guy used a rifle to kill his wife before blowing up his farm, the local school, and himself.
General Zod
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Wounded Knee, 1890, 300 Lakota men, women and children killed by US soldiers during a gun confiscation when a soldier accidentally discharged the rifle taken from a Lakota man named Black Coyote.
How about Waco?
86 ultimately died through gunfire and fire..
"Mount Carmel Center became engulfed in flames. The fire resulted in the deaths of 76 Branch Davidians, including 25 children, two pregnant women, and David Koresh"
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86 ultimately died through gunfire and fire..
"Mount Carmel Center became engulfed in flames. The fire resulted in the deaths of 76 Branch Davidians, including 25 children, two pregnant women, and David Koresh"
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seeker_two
My posts don't count....
Well....it ain't murder if the Government does it.....
Perfect is the enemy of good is an aphorism which means insistence on perfection often prevents implementation of good improvements.
Which may happen to the FL permitless carry bill by those who want the law to also allow open carry. From the Bearing Arms blog comes this reply by the bill's sponsor; “Maybe we just pull the whole thing,” Brannan said. “Then y’all can say, ‘Well, we pissed them off and we didn’t get nothing this year.’ How about that?...Brannan told Florida Politics he was “aggravated” at the activist for showing up at his door with a flyer attacking his position."
As I recall similar action happened in TX when the 'smart ones' went to the private home of the then TX House Speaker to get him to move the bill for open carry through the chamber. Speaker said F**k Y** coming to my house like that and the bill died for two years until passed in 2021.
Which may happen to the FL permitless carry bill by those who want the law to also allow open carry. From the Bearing Arms blog comes this reply by the bill's sponsor; “Maybe we just pull the whole thing,” Brannan said. “Then y’all can say, ‘Well, we pissed them off and we didn’t get nothing this year.’ How about that?...Brannan told Florida Politics he was “aggravated” at the activist for showing up at his door with a flyer attacking his position."
As I recall similar action happened in TX when the 'smart ones' went to the private home of the then TX House Speaker to get him to move the bill for open carry through the chamber. Speaker said F**k Y** coming to my house like that and the bill died for two years until passed in 2021.
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis wasted little time signing HB 543 into law after the state legislature gave final approval to the permitless carry legislation last Thursday. On Monday morning DeSantis held a signing ceremony for the bill, putting pen to paper with a small group of Second Amendment supporters in attendance. With DeSantis’s approval, Florida is now the 26th state to adopt a permitless carry measure, and at least one more state is likely to follow suit in the coming weeks.
Improvements to follow I hope sooner than later:
Second Amendment advocates have criticized the bill for not going far enough, saying that without allowing people to openly carry guns in public, the bill isn’t a true “constitutional carry” measure as DeSantis guaranteed and as the Legislature has hailed....DeSantis has said he supports open carry, but legislative leaders remained firm on continuing Florida’s prohibition against open carry in nearly all circumstances.
NE, SC, and LA are considering constitutional carry bills at this time.
p.s. the anti-2A crowd can't even come with new arguments about permitless carry law now.
But in the wake of the Florida legislature sending a permitless carry bill to Gov. Ron DeSantis, anti-gunners are dusting off their old arguments and once again deploying them in a campaign of fearmongering. Here’s a portion of Miami Herald columnist Fabiola Santiago’s hyperbolic response to the passage of HB 543 headlined “Permitless carry and gun sanctuary cities. Visit Florida at your own risk – it’s a blast!”
Improvements to follow I hope sooner than later:
Second Amendment advocates have criticized the bill for not going far enough, saying that without allowing people to openly carry guns in public, the bill isn’t a true “constitutional carry” measure as DeSantis guaranteed and as the Legislature has hailed....DeSantis has said he supports open carry, but legislative leaders remained firm on continuing Florida’s prohibition against open carry in nearly all circumstances.
NE, SC, and LA are considering constitutional carry bills at this time.
p.s. the anti-2A crowd can't even come with new arguments about permitless carry law now.
But in the wake of the Florida legislature sending a permitless carry bill to Gov. Ron DeSantis, anti-gunners are dusting off their old arguments and once again deploying them in a campaign of fearmongering. Here’s a portion of Miami Herald columnist Fabiola Santiago’s hyperbolic response to the passage of HB 543 headlined “Permitless carry and gun sanctuary cities. Visit Florida at your own risk – it’s a blast!”
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seeker_two
My posts don't count....
That particular speaker wasn't going to let it pass anyway. All that happened is that voters started to see how many Democrats had a "-R" by their name....
Florida became sort of an 'open carry' state according to Bearing Arms blog. You need to read the blog to get the details.
Florida provides a statutory right to openly carry a weapon or firearm while on one’s home property or place of business. Even when one is not at his or her home property or place of business, it is not unlawful in Florida to “briefly and openly display” a lawfully carried firearm “to the ordinary sight of another person,” so long as the firearm is not being “intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner” when the display of the firearm is “not in necessary self-defense.”
Basically, the court found that Florida residents loading and openly carrying a firearm wasn’t a criminal use of deadly force so long as one was in their own yard. Admittedly, it’s not much.
Florida provides a statutory right to openly carry a weapon or firearm while on one’s home property or place of business. Even when one is not at his or her home property or place of business, it is not unlawful in Florida to “briefly and openly display” a lawfully carried firearm “to the ordinary sight of another person,” so long as the firearm is not being “intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner” when the display of the firearm is “not in necessary self-defense.”
Basically, the court found that Florida residents loading and openly carrying a firearm wasn’t a criminal use of deadly force so long as one was in their own yard. Admittedly, it’s not much.
Florida allows open carry while fishing. There's at least one YouTuber who slings an AR, picks up a fishing rod, and goes fishing...sometimes in the most public and tourist-infested places possible.
Yet I see his videos and I'm always amazed that cops in Florida can occasionally be just as hoplophobic as those in NY city, Chicago, and other less-free places.
It's nice to see FL moving in the right direction.
Yet I see his videos and I'm always amazed that cops in Florida can occasionally be just as hoplophobic as those in NY city, Chicago, and other less-free places.
It's nice to see FL moving in the right direction.
Goooo florida!
Anyone with good sense in Florida is dreading July 1. That’s the day when the state starts allowing people over the age of 21 to carry a concealed weapon without a permit and without any gun training — at all. It’s the terrible law that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and the complicit Legislature pushed through this session as they piled aboard the DeSantis-for-president train, intent on giving the governor the rightest of far-right of platforms to run on, in the hope of siphoning support from Donald Trump.
If you bother to read the rest of the story the paper wants to make their case with an irresponsible homeowner shooting at suspected intruder through closed blinds at night. The recent law passed is about carrying a concealed firearm outside the residence without asking for permission from FL not firearms in home defense. BTW: On Sep 1st 2023 will be two years since TX passed its permitless carry law with nary a problem on the street from lawful and responsible gun owners. I have read a few stories of defensive gun use as the media doesn't want to tell low-info voters how ordinary people protect themselves.
And here is an opposing point of view article from FL
Some experts say they don’t expect the new law to make life more dangerous or significantly increase crime because plenty of people are already permitted or carrying weapons without a permit.
If you bother to read the rest of the story the paper wants to make their case with an irresponsible homeowner shooting at suspected intruder through closed blinds at night. The recent law passed is about carrying a concealed firearm outside the residence without asking for permission from FL not firearms in home defense. BTW: On Sep 1st 2023 will be two years since TX passed its permitless carry law with nary a problem on the street from lawful and responsible gun owners. I have read a few stories of defensive gun use as the media doesn't want to tell low-info voters how ordinary people protect themselves.
And here is an opposing point of view article from FL
Some experts say they don’t expect the new law to make life more dangerous or significantly increase crime because plenty of people are already permitted or carrying weapons without a permit.
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Fishkiller
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Still waiting for blood to run in the streets and bodies stacked up line cordwood
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