Mosin Nagant Russian Rifle

[Bithabus]

I bought one tonight at Cabela's. $89. Place was packed with people buying Mosins.

 

[majormadmax]

Dang, I should've gone up there; but I am sure they've been picked over pretty well by now...

Cheers! M2

 

[Bithabus]

Shelf was bare when I left but they might restock. I'd call and ask.

 

[ROGER4314]

I had a Westinghouse M/N that I bought from a friend who hit a tough financial place. The price was $100. The Westinghouse Logo wasn't great but you could read it clearly. I really couldn't tell any difference from other M/N rifles. Anyway, he got on his feet financially and offered me $150 for the rifle so I returned it to him.

I've heard the Westinghouse rifles are worth a lot but that hasn't been my experience. It was nice to have owned it for a while.

Flash

 

[majormadmax]

Flash

A New England Westinghouse (NEW) would run ~$300-450 these days depending on condition. I got lucky and picked up one locally for $320 a year ago, it was Finn-captured and had D and SA stamps as well as marked with a Civil Guard number on the buttstock; but you'd be hard-pressed to find that deal again. That is, unless you find one that has been "sporterized," which diminishes the value considerably...

Cheers! M2

 

[ROGER4314]

My Westinghouse was an 1891 and the rifle was nice but the logo was pretty rough. It actually said "estinghouse", much of the logo was illegible but it was the real deal. James & I have been friends for about 15 years so I sold it back to him. It was nice to have had a real piece of history even if it was only for 2 years. Haven't had another 1891 but have had a few 91/30's. Nice rifles!

I agree that the Finn conversions are in a class by themselves. There's just no comparison between the Finn conversion and the parent 91 or 91/30 rifles. I managed to find a Sako and it's a keeper!

Flash

 

[Rum Runner]

You are all trying to make me pay more for a Finn one, aren't you?

 

[tenfeathers]

J&G Sales Great place to buy the Mosin nagant I have 3 from them all are very nice

 

[M. Sage]

You are all trying to make me pay more for a Finn one, aren't you?

It's worth it!

 

[ROGER4314]

The Finns really knew how to put a rifle together (and still do) and they wouldn't release the rifles from the armory until they grouped within specs. Their stocks are two piece and held together with glued finger joints. The Finnish rifles are definitely worth the extra money!

Flash

 

[majormadmax]

It's worth it!

The Finns really knew how to put a rifle together (and still do) and they wouldn't release the rifles from the armory until they grouped within specs. Their stocks are two piece and held together with glued finger joints. The Finnish rifles are definitely worth the extra money!

Flash

Concur, every Mosin collector should have at least one true Finn!

7.62x54R.net has an excellent primer on the Mosin, to include a detailed explanation on the Finnish versions of the rifle that is worth reading...

The use of Mosin rifles by Finland is story unto itself with as rich a history and as wide a number of variations as Russia and the Soviet Union themselves. At the time of the Russian revolution Finland was under the rule of the Tsar. When Nicholas II was deposed Finland declared its independence and defeated the Russian forces in Finland, but retained stores of arms. With an urgent need to build an army to defend itself from the real threat of Russia and many Mosins already on hand it only made sense to adopt it as the primary rifle. Between WWI and WWII Finland actively traded other types of rifles in their inventory with countries across Europe and Asia for Mosins which they had captured. The condition ranged from serviceable to “parts guns”. With an abundance of spare parts it was only natural to use them to build “new” rifles that could be put to use. While some Finn rifles are more common than others, they are all well built and far less common than other military rifles. The combination of quality, scarcity and history make them very desirable for collectors. A large and varied number of markings from all over Europe also add to the interest in Finn rifles.

One of the earliest rebuilding programs was undertaken by the Finnish Civil Guard which is roughly equivalent to the US National Guard. The rifles were designated M24 and are essentially the same as the Russian M91. The funding for these rifles was raised by the Civil Guard Auxiliary known as the Lotta Svard and they are often known as “Lotta Rifles”. New barrels were purchased from the Swiss firm SIG and from three German firms. The SIG barrels are marked "Schweiz-Industrie Gesellschaft Neuhausen" on the right of the chamber above the woodline. The German barrels are marked "Bohler-Stahl" on the bottom of the barrel with no distinction between makers. All M24 barrels have the Civil Guard crest of an S topped with three fir sprigs in a shield on the chamber. All German barrels and the majority of Swiss barrels are heavier than the standard M91 barrel and have a "step" near the muzzle to accommodate a standard bayonet.

The Finnish army undertook a project to reline worn out barrels of M91s in 1925. These are known as the "P-Series" with markings of P-25 (reported but not documented), P-26, and P-27 on the barrel shank. Some of these barrels are also marked with an “S” which is believed to indicate “Salerno”, the town in Italy where the relining process was developed. It is thought that many of these relined barrels were not installed on receivers until the desperate times of the Winter (1939-40) and Continuation Wars (1941-44). Many are “in the white” which supports this theory.

At the same time as the P-series Finland also began production of barrels at Tikkakoski (\Tikka\). These were assembled into M91 configuration with dates of 1925, 1926, and 1927. Early barrels were unstepped and later barrels were stepped, just as in M24 production. The Tikka mark at this time was a T in a triangle and is found on top of the barrels.

In 1927 the Finnish Army adopted the M27 which was an entirely new design built on the Mosin action. It features a 27” heavy barrel and an overall length of 46 ¾”. Primary differences are an improved front sight with protective “ears” and a combined front barrel band and nose cap. M27s were built from 1927 to 1940 by Tikka with VKT (Valtion Kirvaaritehdas) examples being very rare. Tikka barrels are marked with a T in a triangle and VKT barrels are marked with VKT in a polygon.

The Civil Guard improved on the M27 with a stronger front barrel band and designated it the M28. These are marked on the barrel shank with SY, an abbreviation for Suojeluskuntain Yliesikunta (Civil Guard). Barrels were purchased from SIG and marked so under the woodline. They were also produced at Tikka and marked on top with a T in a triangle. Some early rifles are found with two sling slots, one over the other, in the butt and are known as “ski troopers”. M28s are dated on the bottom of the barrel with 27, 28, or 29 in a small box.

In 1930 the M28 was further improved with a screw adjustable front sight, improved rear sight, improved bedding of the barrel and a modified magazine box to prevent rim jams. The M28/30 rifles were built by SAKO and have the “S in Gear” logo and the Civil Guard abbreviation “SK.Y” on the barrel shank. Because of an evolutionary development and upgrades to M28s there are several configurations of M28/30s with different combinations of sights, stocks and barrels.

In 1939 the Finnish Army and Civil Guard adopted a standard rifle known as the M39. It is similar to previous models, but with improved barrel bands and a double sling swivel configuration (front and rear) making it suitable for all types of troops. It is easily recognized by its pistol grip stock although early stocks are "straight" like the M27, M28, and M28/30. M39s were produced by SAKO, VKT, and Tikka. Some Sako rifles have the Civil Guard Sk.Y logo and there are also "B" barrels from Belgium although the rifles were assembled in Finland. M39s are well known for their accuracy and were produced for match shooting and training in the late '60s and early '70s.

During the Winter and Continuation Wars Finland also built many M91s with barrels made by Tikka, VKT, and with B barrels from Belgium. Late in the Continuation War Tikka also produced M91/30 rifles. The most noticeable difference in these and Soviet M91/30s was the blade front sight as opposed to the post and globe used by the Soviets. Besides new production, captured rifles were widely used and repaired as necessary. This led to a wide variety of configurations among Finnish rifles that will keep a collector busy for years. The most common mark found on Finnish captured rifles is "[SA]" an abbreviation for "Suomen Armeija" (Finnish Army), but "PUOLUSTUSLAITOS" (Defense Department) is also found even though it was only used for 2 months in 1942. Most Finnish rifles are built on the earlier hexagonal receivers, but there are some found with later round receivers, primarily M91/30s and M91s.

Cheers! M2

 

[Charley]

Mosins are great rifles, everybody needs to have at least a couple. Here are my rifles and carbines...

 

[M. Sage]

The Finns really knew how to put a rifle together (and still do) and they wouldn't release the rifles from the armory until they grouped within specs. Their stocks are two piece and held together with glued finger joints. The Finnish rifles are definitely worth the extra money!

Flash

The stock on mine also has the knots drilled out and plugged.

 

[majormadmax]

Skip was asking me about Mosins at the SA gun show last weekend, so I thought I'd revive this zombie thread for him...

And again, the best forum (outside of this one, of course! ) for Mosin-Nagants is...7.62x54r.net

Cheers! M2

 

[M. Sage]

Skip was asking me about Mosins at the SA gun show last weekend, so I thought I'd revive this zombie thread for him...

And again, the best forum (outside of this one, of course! ) for Mosin-Nagants is...7.62x54r.net

Cheers! M2

It really is.

I love my M39. 12"x24" target at 250 yards? Easy, even with 50 year old ammo!

 

[Kyle]

Well hell, sounds like I may have overpaid a touch for my M44... im into it for $170 and I bought it last year. I enjoy the hell out of it, so in my estimation it was worth every penny, just have to remember not to buy things on the fly from now on!

 

[M. Sage]

Well hell, sounds like I may have overpaid a touch for my M44... im into it for $170 and I bought it last year. I enjoy the hell out of it, so in my estimation it was worth every penny, just have to remember not to buy things on the fly from now on!

Depends a bit on the M44, some are worth more. Some are worth a LOT more.

 

[Texas1911]

Moist Nugget ... I has one.

 

[Skip]

Thanks majormadmax, I am REALLY looking forward to getting my first. ALTHOUGH...they sound like Lay's......you can't have just one...

 

[Rum Runner]

Well hell, sounds like I may have overpaid a touch for my M44... im into it for $170 and I bought it last year. I enjoy the hell out of it, so in my estimation it was worth every penny, just have to remember not to buy things on the fly from now on!

Like Sage Says...it depends. I paid $225 for my minty Polish M44 and that was after losing similar auctions on Gunbroker for a month or so. I think I got a decent deal.

they sound like Lay's......you can't have just one

Yep, getting laid just once is no good at all.