HEB

[TJjerry]

Here is one to think about. The 30.06 law as written does not give the exact Spanish wording as it does in English. It states the laws exact verbiage in English and further 'states' that the sign or card must be "exactly as stated, in English and Spanish. I don't think there is an exact translation word for word in Spanish. For instance the Spanish word for 'a' in English is different. And others words in the law also. So NO sign is exactly grammatically correct, because the law does not give an exact verbiage of the law in Spanish.
It is left up to interpretation. Deep I know.....

 

[toddnjoyce]

Got any cases to cite where my assertions are proven wrong?

Sure. 21 licensholders convicted for this in 2022, the most recent year for which data is available.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/rsd/ltc/reports/convictionratesreport2021.pdf

Remember, HB1927 repealed 46.035 in it’s entirety and then re-wrote 46.03. This part gets overlooked a lot.

(f) Except as provided by Subsection (e-1), it is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

e-1 is the get out of jail free card at the airport.

And, for posterity, the 51% prohibition is A (7), so the basic penalty applies, without exception.

(g) Except as provided by Subsections (g-1) and (g-2), an offense under this section is a felony of the third degree.
(g-1) If the weapon that is the subject of the offense is a location-restricted knife, an offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor, except that the offense is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed under Subsection (a)(1).
(g-2) An offense committed under Subsection (a)(8), (a)(10), (a)(11), (a)(13), (a-2), (a-3), or (a-4) is a Class A misdemeanor.

 

[BRD@66]

Sure. 21 licensholders convicted for this in 2022, the most recent year for which data is available.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/rsd/ltc/reports/convictionratesreport2021.pdf

Remember, HB1927 repealed 46.035 in it’s entirety and then re-wrote 46.03. This part gets overlooked a lot.



e-1 is the get out of jail free card at the airport.

And, for posterity, the 51% prohibition is A (7), so the basic penalty applies, without exception.

You do know, of course, that I'm gonna call on you if I ever get busted, right?

 

[toddnjoyce]

You do know, of course, that I'm gonna call on you if I ever get busted, right?

Call your son, he’s got better strings to pull.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Now if you don't mind, I'm tired of wading through legalese because you want to believe businesses can secretly prohibit legal carry. I'm a graphic designer, not a lawyer.

Also, there's no TABC SWAT teams waiting to rappel down from the rafters if you don't see an inappropriately placed sign.

Considering legalese is what gets you convicted, and any LEO in jurisdiction can charge you, let’s look at what a realistic scenario is, with the LEO encounter. Here’s the conversation with that LEO

Q1: did the defendant carry a handgun on the premises?
Yes. Go to Q2
No. 46.15 (p) is not available to the defendant.

Q2: is the defendant an LTC holder?
No. 46.15 (p) is not available to the defendant.
Yes. Go to Q3

Q3: Was there a 30.06 or 30.07 or 411.204 (as applicable)
No. 46.15 (p) is not available to the defendant.
Yes. 46.15(p) is available. You quote chapter and verse. Go to Q4.

Q4. Does the LEO accept your argument.
Yes. Congratulations; you just avoided an arrest.
No. LEO tells you to save it for the judge. Time for a ride to jail. Use the ride to plan your next steps.

For 30.06/.07, the decision to ignore is easy because the stakes are low. For 51%, that equation changes. When the 2023 data is published, I’ll take a look at it to see if LTC holders are still getting convicted.

 

[General Zod]

Considering legalese is what gets you convicted, and any LEO in jurisdiction can charge you, let’s look at what a realistic scenario is, with the LEO encounter. Here’s the conversation with that LEO

Q1: did the defendant carry a handgun on the premises?
Yes. Go to Q2
No. 46.15 (p) is not available to the defendant.

Q2: is the defendant an LTC holder?
No. 46.15 (p) is not available to the defendant.
Yes. Go to Q3

Q3: Was there a 30.06 or 30.07 or 411.204 (as applicable)
No. 46.15 (p) is not available to the defendant.
Yes. 46.15(p) is available. You quote chapter and verse. Go to Q4.

Q4. Does the LEO accept your argument.
Yes. Congratulations; you just avoided an arrest.
No. LEO tells you to save it for the judge. Time for a ride to jail. Use the ride to plan your next steps.

For 30.06/.07, the decision to ignore is easy because the stakes are low. For 51%, that equation changes. When the 2023 data is published, I’ll take a look at it to see if LTC holders are still getting convicted.

So rather than admit that the sign must be prominently posted as required by law in order to be valid, you have to create a scenario to justify your position.

Sections 46.03 (a) (7), (11), and (13) do not apply if the actor: (1) carries a handgun on the premises or other property, as applicable; (2) holds a license to carry a handgun issued under Subchapter H,Chapter 411,Government Code; and (3) was not given effective notice under Section 30.06 or 30.07 of this code or Section 411.204, Government Code, as applicable.

I like my goalposts to stay firmly rooted where they are, thanks. The complaint about wading through legalese was in reference to your nitpicking and refusal to accept what's stated in the statute I linked above and quoted again here. The simple fact is the sign must be posted prominently and plainly visible from the public entrances in order to be valid. "In the back near the restrooms" is not an appropriate place to post the sign, and is not in accordance with the law. Thus, the sign is invalid when posted incorrectly.

Since your opinion carries more weight than the law, and since you won't accept any information contrary to your assertions even if it's copied and pasted directly from the bill that passed three years ago, there is no point in continuing to beat this dead horse with you.

 

[tedwitt]

I just got home from the Doctor, the doors going had the signs up in what looked like to me about 10 different languages.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I just got home from the Doctor, the doors going had the signs up in what looked like to me about 10 different languages.

1" tall?

 

[tedwitt]

1" tall?

They were the right signs, there was at least 8 or 10 windows and all but one had a sign.

 

[benenglish]

Looking around St. Lukes tonight, I notice that the proper signs are displayed. And by displayed, I mean displayed everywhere.

They're at all the entrances. They're randomly placed on the walls. There are signs posted on the entrances to mechanical rooms. Every time one building transitions to another, even though to my perspective I'm just walking down the same long hallway, there's another set of signs. They can be found at the doors to interior courtyards. They're posted at the doors of several internal departments, especially the ones that visitors would be expected to use, such as the admitting office.

They're all over the place. It seems like overkill to me but, in retrospect, they definitely get the point across.

 

[General Zod]

Looking around St. Lukes tonight, I notice that the proper signs are displayed. And by displayed, I mean displayed everywhere.

They're at all the entrances. They're randomly placed on the walls. There are signs posted on the entrances to mechanical rooms. Every time one building transitions to another, even though to my perspective I'm just walking down the same long hallway, there's another set of signs. They can be found at the doors to interior courtyards. They're posted at the doors of several internal departments, especially the ones that visitors would be expected to use, such as the admitting office.

They're all over the place. It seems like overkill to me but, in retrospect, they definitely get the point across.

Yep. "The management has worked hard to provide this target-rich environment for any and all mass shooters to use at their leisure. Please feel free to satisfy your murderous intentions before offing yourself at your convenience."

 

[tedwitt]

1" tall?

Some were, most were 2" or better. The fact still remains, they were large enough for everyone to see, they defiantly got my attention.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…The simple fact is the sign must be posted prominently and plainly visible from the public entrances in order to be valid. "In the back near the restrooms" is not an appropriate place to post the sign, and is not in accordance with the law. Thus, the sign is invalid when posted incorrectly…

Considering 46.15 (p) is specific to licenseholders, I wouldn’t count on that little bit if 411.204 as a legal defense for someone exercising permitless carry.

 

[General Zod]

Considering 46.15 (p) is specific to licenseholders, I wouldn’t count on that little bit if 411.204 as a legal defense for someone exercising permitless carry.

Funny, nobody has mentioned unlicensed carry in relation to this until just now. But the fact remains, "adequate notice" is required in order for it be enforceable. A sign that's not visible upon entry is not considered "adequate notice" under the law.

 

[Steve In Texas]

The attorneys I know advise against willingly attempting to become case law unless one's resources are substantial.

 

[General Zod]

The attorneys I know advise against willingly attempting to become case law unless one's resources are substantial.

Good thing nobody here is advocating that.

 

[MountainGirl]

Was just at HEB+ in Beaumont, no signs. None.

 

[striker55]

Was just at HEB+ in Beaumont, no signs. None.

Maybe they were hidden?

 

[MountainGirl]

Maybe they were hidden?

Nope. I looked for them. Sliding glass doors, brick walls; all naked. Not even 'special sales' signs. Giant store, very clean. Special trip, hour away, just for imported cheeses.

 

[SARGE67]

This is weird. Both Whole Foods and First Watch we go to have written stuff on the sides of the entrances but none of the "signs". No guns allowed, period. Who takes the time to read all the stuff on glass as you enter a store ? But as I once understood it, all that writing is legit just like your inlaws and outlaws writing on cardboard on their front door meant just for you.