Death at The Bullet Hole

[espy59lc]

If you think about it, no range is safe. You are standing next to complete strangers (most of the time) and have to put your full trust in them, not even knowing who they are or their experience with firearms. Accidents can happen at ANY range! An RO can stop something if he/she sees it, but it only takes a split second to turn and muzzle sweep someone, and not even Mr. HardcoreSafetyRO can stop that.

The fact that you're standing next to a stranger holding a deadly weapon is the safety problem.

 

[KaliJuan]

Guys, a couple of points.....

I "get it" that some of you don't like the place. The safety issues many have commented on are being addressed as best they can - as it happens, there WERE RO's at the range today, FYI. Things can get "hairy" at ANY range - much of it is up to those shooting, in my experience.

The owners are actually on this board - they read what we post. They're also highly supportive of the shooting sports, and I'll be so bold to remind you that they were kind enough to make a bay available for our recent benefit shoot for one of our members. It was raining that day, and they opened their CHL training trailer for us to use - something they didn't have to do.

I just hope that we'll keep those kinds of things in mind as we discuss this. If the range did something wrong, that'll come out and be fair game for discussion IMO. But if, as it appears, they were not responsible for this incident, some will have made comments that were, IMO, out of place.

Just my .02 worth...

I'm glad I went that day it rained TRN, I got to meet the man behind these wise words, and I'll save the punchline for ya later but for now I have agree with you, THIS ISN'T the only place where people have gotten shot at or that have had safety issues.

NO RANGE IS IMMUNE TO IT

Look, I have said it once before in another thread about SA Ranges, if you don't like how things are being run at the ranges here, put your money where your mouth is and build one.

RO's don't get paid alot of money to begin with so if you want for there to be a plethora of RO's at your new and highly safety conscious range, I suggest you pay them the money they deserve to become highly qualified and to be able to save lives if needed.

Have I been muzzle swept? YEP, at that same pistol range but guess what? it's happened to me multiple times at other ranges, so no Range here in town is exempt from safety issues, and these haven't been the first time I had guns pointed at me and probably won't be the last.

Have there been shooting range related deaths before? Yes there has been and at more locations than just BH, whether this one was suicide related or not, the cameras may tell that story.

Will the BH lose my money due to this incident? Hell No, they work as we all do, and they have taken some strides at improvements there, they added more cameras, when there is more range officers, they do walk the grounds, they're not empathic beings from Star Trek that can sense if someone may or may not shoot themselves, they are working class people that support their community and support our 2nd amendment rights, oh yeah, when the Highly Safety Conscious Range gets opened and is manned by a thousand Range Officers who were ex-contestants of Top Shot, let them know that they too will have to work everyday of the year except for Thanksgiving and Christmas like the people at BH does in order to get my support.

 

[SPCHardin]

I would also like to clarify my post from earlier. I love the staff at the bullethole (except for the person who got mad at me because my AK bolt would not lock back.... it dont do that!) The staff has always been friendly to me, and even helped me with some minor gunsmithing issues. The RO's helped me with some pistol techniques last time I was there.

I have to agree with the Major on this one though, I have not seen a concerted effort to improve safety on the large scale. I have seen multiple violations that need to be corrected. Last time I was there, A guy let his girlfriend shoot his Glock .45 and walked away. This was her first time shooting. She had a stovepipe, cleared the case, put the weapon down facing the rest of the line. I went over, cleared the weapon, locked the slide back and returned it to her boyfriend informing him that he needs to monitor new shooters.

I think we all know the risks we take going to any range. There will always be people there who do not have the best gun safety practices, and there are bound to be accidents even at the best ranges. Bullethole just happened to have this horrible fate befall them. Lets at least give them the benefit of the doubt until some serious negligence has been uncovered.

Just my .02!

 

[GunlessNot4Long]

i just heard about this, now wheres the video?

 

[Wolfwood]

could happen any where. at any time. all you can do is be aware of your surroundings. i always take care when there are people (especially ones i dont know personally, and some that i do for that matter [...TXR ... ] with loaded guns basically surrounding me.

sad story, glad no more people were hurt, and if friends or family of the deceased should read this, i offer my heartfelt condolences.

 

[majormadmax]

Well, first we are not sure what happened; there is a person who claims this was a suicide but until such time as an investigation determines that is the case, it still could have easily been an AD either on his part or someone else.

Secondly, as I have stated multiple times before, I have witnessed firsthand horrendous range safety issues at the Bullet Hole in the past, so if this was an AD then it would not surprise me. The management has not changed since when I used to shoot there, so maybe they have tried to put some effort into actually making the place safe to shoot but when I was going there I had several conversations with the folks that worked there about the problems on the range that went unaddressed. So I finally had enough, and I don't care what they have done to improve things, they have lost my business. They had their chance, numerous ones actually; but there comes a time when I don't feel like risking my life or more importantly the lives of my family members is worth it.

I don't wish this kind of incident on anyone, and if it was a suicide then the range should be resolved of any responsibility (unless it is proven they did have some liability); but it doesn't negate the fact that the Bullet Hole has a long-standing reputation for a lack of safety and I continue to hear others say it hasn't changed. Even if I didn't have Camp Bullis to shoot at, I still would no go there. I'd rather drive a bit farther and go to Blackhawk or even one of the other ranges in the area than to go someplace where safety is not their number one priority!

Cheers! M2

 

[Tejano Scott]

I lose some trust in public ranges when I hear the horror stories of people being unsafe.

I absolutely agree. Every time I visit my dad in Belton, TX he used to take me to a range called Weber's(in Troy, TX) that has to be the absolutely most unsafe range I've ever been to. It really makes me wish I made more money and could buy my own property. Sigh. Maybe one of these days.

 

[Twisted.308]

A good friend of mine was shooting elsewhere on the property when it happened. Im just glad he is safe. Cops confiscated handguns just in case it wasn't a suicide he said.

I think I would have told them to pound sand and called my lawyer before un-assing my gun(s)

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

I think I would have told them to pound sand and called my lawyer before un-assing my gun(s)

yeah, good luck with that. possible murder scene and you're refusing to comply with an investigation.....good choice.

 

[Tejano Scott]

I think I would have told them to pound sand and called my lawyer before un-assing my gun(s)

Your posts in this thread are absolutely stupid. You can't tell what caliber of bullet until an autopsy is performed and until forensics matches a shell casing/projectile to a gun. So the only sand that will be pounded, will be your face in the dirt when they arrest you for interferring with a homicide investigation. I'm sure your lawyer will be really thrilled to get that call. Something tells me, you'd have a very different attitude in person. Don't be an internet tough guy.

 

[RPS]

CSI has certainly skewed public perception

 

[Twisted.308]

as a matter of fact I have been on the recieving end of a bullet... and while I was in the hospital the ATF tried to come to my house and my parents houses and confiscate all my guns which my Mother promptly called her lawyer and had him meet at our house...he said this was the best thing we could have done as this way there was an indisputable record of all guns ... I was not trying to come off the wrong way ...but if we would have not done this, he is positive I would most certainly lost some of my stuff including rifles given down thru the years by relatives by not having reciepts etc ..when we were able to reclaim the items I am still fighting them over one Walther Pistol my Great Aunt gave me ....it was photographed when they took it but now say they never had it !!! ...this is why I said I would have not given them anything untill a layer was informed

 

[Texas1911]

Your posts in this thread are absolutely stupid. You can't tell what caliber of bullet until an autopsy is performed and until forensics matches a shell casing/projectile to a gun. So the only sand that will be pounded, will be your face in the dirt when they arrest you for interferring with a homicide investigation. I'm sure your lawyer will be really thrilled to get that call. Something tells me, you'd have a very different attitude in person. Don't be an internet tough guy.

Use more tact the next time you respond ... it's not necessary to berate someone.

 

[Twisted.308]

BTW . ...yea i feel bad for the guy ..either self inflicted or by accident ....
just when they posted all the guns were confiscated it kinda hit a nerve... and should have phrased it better ...Sorry Guys !

 

[Kyle]

I was out there around a month ago for the first time and I had a great experience there, not once did I feel unsafe; the range masters were always out at the pistol range keeping constant watch and when they called a cease fire he would walk and check every gun to make sure it was safe before letting folks check their targets. They also made appearances at the rifle range periodically... My only complaint was the time it took to check in (we stood in line for 30+ minutes)... I am used to the more relaxed range here in Kerrville where it is up to the shooters to maintain control, I have never seen or had an issue there personally; the range master does make himself known and will kick people off without hesitation. What a shame though... things like this happen in the blink of an eye...very hard to prevent.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Use more tact the next time you respond ... it's not necessary to berate someone.

Didn't think I was berating anyone, just their less than realistic opinion of what was going to happen if they obstructed a homicide investigation. If you're saying it's not absolutely stupid to refuse to hand over your gun in this situation when directed by a LEO(and tell them to "pound sand" at the scene of a dead body), then I guess I can understand how you would view this as berating. And for that, I apologize.

 

[just jk]

2. Hes antiguns and did this to help the antigun movement.

did you think this through before you posted this?

 

[just jk]

whether a gun shot was self inflicted or not - will be determined by the distance from the muzzle to the bullet wound - there is a pattern associated with "close contact" (suicide)...if they can recover the round - under a ballistics magnifier they can identify striations that are particular to a specific type of gun...under that same magnifier they can examine the ejection mark on the spent casing to determine if it came from a specific gun

the problem on a range is all that brass laying around....determining whether this was self inflicted - even without the video - is actually fairly easy

 

[wiredgeorge]

Thought for the day; Proverbs 17:28 " Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace;
When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive."

 

[Danimal]

Hello All. I am new to your forum. I found you because I heard the news report on the radio and got home to google and you guys were the first to discuss this incident. So I joined your forum. I was at the The Bullet Hole range this last Monday morning. I have been going to this range for about 6 months. I have been there on the weekends when there were many ROs at the pistol range and on Monday mornings when there in no ROs there yet and shooters have to take charge of cease fires and going hot. I like going in the mornings because fewer shooters. I have never had an issue without a RO there. Some folks do not know the rules for cease fire, unload weapon, lock back slide if able, and step away from table and be behind a line until call for live fire. Monday a couple of guys were shooting a new Ruger sr9 that one had purchased. We had some new shooters ready to set up. I called a cease fire. Noticed they had not locked the slide and asked them to do so. They did. While checking targets, one of the guys starts up to the shooting table. I asked him to step behind the line. He did. They both came up to me as they left and thanked me for keeping them safe. I have been yelled at by ROs before for forgetting this or that. You gotta learn somewhere. But incidents like this just reinforce what you, the shooter is supposed to do to keep yourself and everyone else safe. I hope this is just a person who could not live with themself or an unfortunate accident. Either is not good. I like the range. Have not really had any reason to complain.

I was at the Garland public range in the last month and they make you watch a 20 minute safety video before you can enter the range. And their RO is no one to joke around with on safety. They had a person off range shot by a 22lr thought to have been from this range.

One point though, I have just introduced my girlfriend to shooting. This kinda freaked her out. Just lost her dad recently. Anyway hope it does not keep her from going forward with shooting. Thanks for letting me say my $.02