Concealed Draw (Without one in the Chamber and with on in the chamber)

[coboblack]

the most retarded statement in this thread.

It was ordered that we stop trashing each other. If you don't agree with me, that is your choice. If you want to get ugly.....I could do that too, then we'll be right back in the craphole we had before......................... Then the ban hammer will fall.

Stop the personal attacks. You can disagree and do it with courtesy and mutual respect.

Flash

...wait...is this statement intended for me? When did we start trashing each other?

 

[TheRealT-Dawg]

No, you are misinterpreting it. I'm asking you guys all the questions I can possibly think of, and the reasons for them because I want to hear all of your rebuttals. Its how I truly learn both sides, it forces me to think of all the scenarios and pros and cons and by me asking I hope to hear yours. To be honest, most of what you guys have said, has me leaning more for one in the chamber but with a good holster. Thats why I asked for advice on a good IWB conceal holster for the Glock 23 that is safe for keeping one in the chamber.

Please don't misinterpret my questions and scenarios. I like to discuss things, and I learn by discussing in a debate fashion. Don't take it as an argument or that I've made up my mind on anything. Ive said numerous times I'm inexperienced, open minded and will make my final decision after going to my ECQC classes. I appreciate EVERYTHING you guys have said, so please keep it coming.

I tend to be "tactical gear queer" so I like gear that "high speed, low drag" LOL! But seriously, if your importance is more capability rather than comfort when it comes to IWB holsters, then custom kydex holsters are the way to go, hands down IMO. One of the best is Raven Concealment... the problem is their turn around time is 6-8 months and I don't have the patience for that haha! Bravo Concealment and Armordillo Concealment are, IMO, just as good if not better and with only 6-8 WEEKS of turn around if not sooner.

 

[coboblack]

Guys, please drop the personal attacks.

What we are really talking about here is self-confidence or a lack thereof. Confidence in our abilities, confidence in the mechanical designs and safeties in the gun.

Wow, yes. Please no fighting here. Thats the last thing I intended. If I offended anyone I apologize. I take the word of LEO's and Military and experience CWL and respect it ALOT. Please don't confuse my speaking my opinions with me preaching or trying to persuade you.

They are my own thoughts, fears and ideas and I ask them so that I can have some one experienced as you guys answers those questions, rationalize my thoughts and I EXPECT you to tell me which ideas I have that are incorrect. I don't take it as an insult. You HAVE the experience, not me. I'm asking what I think, so feel free to tell me when its full of shit, just don't call me a dumb ass when you do =P

 

[ROGER4314]

"the most retarded statement in this thread."

If you didn't make the above statement, then please disregard.....no offense was intended to the OP.

Flash

 

[coboblack]

I tend to be "tactical gear queer" so I like gear that "high speed, low drag" LOL! But seriously, if your importance is more capability rather than comfort when it comes to IWB holsters, then custom kydex holsters are the way to go, hands down IMO. One of the best is Raven Concealment... the problem is their turn around time is 6-8 months and I don't have the patience for that haha! Bravo Concealment and Armordillo Concealment are, IMO, just as good if not better and with only 6-8 WEEKS of turn around if not sooner.

Thanks, and FYI for any other suggestions, price is not something I'm concerned with. I would rather reliable quality products than save a buck, just so long as I'm paying for it working good and not paying for a logo.

 

[TheRealT-Dawg]

Thanks, and FYI for any other suggestions, price is not something I'm concerned with. I would rather reliable quality products than save a buck, just so long as I'm paying for it working good and not paying for a logo.

I personally run Armordillo Concealment because they seem to have the most options to customize your holster on the order page... you can choose the thickness, what size waist you are, if you gun has a tac light, if you want a 10 degree cant, etc.... also, they come in normal OWB belt loops, but they have optional IWB attachments, which is what I got.... Just holler back if you have any questions about them or anything else man!

 

[coboblack]

"the most retarded statement in this thread."

If you didn't make the above statement, then please disregard.....no offense was intended to the OP.

Flash

Ahhh ok. I see now, and no, it wasn't me it, was "renegade" who said it. I would prefer no one trash talk for sure though. I just want to hear WHY people choose to carry the way they do. What advantages it gives them and any cons they notice. I am telling people why I PERSONALLY have thought about carrying without one in the chamber.

Its new to me, I have never carried a pistol chambered tucked into my clothes while I move about and it makes me nervous especially when I see AD ND stories every other week. One from a guy who carried pistols for 30 years, always chambered and he picked up a new gun and holster and carried it where he always did out of habit. Well while hiking 4 miles away he bent over and his jeans bunched up in the trigger guard and shot the gun. It shot a hole in is penis and his left testicle was demolished.

Now, of course it goes back to the holster and being smart and picking the right one, but hearing that still makes me nervous. Being creatures of habit it makes me nervous that you might get so "used" to something, that if you change anything...like a new gun and holster, you will behave as you always do and things may go wrong.

If I decide to go with one in the chamber, I want to make sure I have a holster that is known for preventing AD and will allow me to move, bend over, jump run and wiggle without causing any AD.

 

[TheRealT-Dawg]

Ahhh ok. I see now, and no, it wasn't me it, was "renegade" who said it. I would prefer no one trash talk for sure though. I just want to hear WHY people choose to carry the way they do. What advantages it gives them and any cons they notice. I am telling people why I PERSONALLY have thought about carrying without one in the chamber.

Its new to me, I have never carried a pistol chambered tucked into my clothes while I move about and it makes me nervous especially when I see AD ND stories every other week. One from a guy who carried pistols for 30 years, always chambered and he picked up a new gun and holster and carried it where he always did out of habit. Well while hiking 4 miles away he bent over and his jeans bunched up in the trigger guard and shot the gun. It shot a hole in is penis and his left testicle was demolished.

Now, of course it goes back to the holster and being smart and picking the right one, but hearing that still makes me nervous. Being creatures of habit it makes me nervous that you might get so "used" to something, that if you change anything...like a new gun and holster, you will behave as you always do and things may go wrong.

If I decide to go with one in the chamber, I want to make sure I have a holster that is known for preventing AD and will allow me to move, bend over, jump run and wiggle without causing any AD.

any good quality holster will always have the trigger guard and trigger covered... another reason why I like custom kydex holsters over soft fabric ones

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Thinner leather holsters can grow softer over time too. Then when re-holstering (not drawing usually) a folded piece of leather can potentially get caught in the trigger as you push it in the holster- kaboom

The higher quality leather ones and kydex are what you're looking for. Both have pros and cons but will be stiff around the trigger guard.

As a martial arts guy you may also want to research appendix carry benefits when up close and personal (vs carrying on your hip).

 

[coboblack]

Thinner leather holsters can grow softer over time too. Then when re-holstering (not drawing usually) a folded piece of leather can potentially get caught in the trigger as you push it in the holster- kaboom

The higher quality leather ones and kydex are what you're looking for. Both have pros and cons but will be stiff around the trigger guard.

As a martial arts guy you may also want to research appendix carry benefits when up close and personal (vs carrying on your hip).

sweet, thanks..I'll start researching that for sure.

 

[thack1963]

Im sure I wouldn't, but there would be the constant fear of it happening. (Which isn't really a bad thing, you should respect it) But a even bigger fear is like most things, after time goes by CAN become complacent with something if you don't you should have a healthy fear and respect for. That, and different things like changing holsters or clothing have been know to call AD.

Your so used to your holster having a trigger guard and you change holsters, bend over and your jeans bunch up and cause the trigger to be pressed and your gun blows a hole in your balls. Or you accidently do something else and it goes off. The point is, you spend more time NOT needing the pistol to be drawn and fired. So during that time, you need the pistol to be SAFE. Well, it seems like there is more to go wrong when you keep one chambered. What if that thing going wrong, is me shooting my child. I couldn't live with myself.

Man accidentally shoots self in testicles - seattlepi.com

No Holster, why be surprised he shot himself. That is flat stupid.

CHL Owner Accidentally Fires Gun In Walmart, Injures Himself And Three Others - Todd Canady

Same Story, no holster...

TexasCHLforum.com • View topic - Man Accidentally Shoots Self in Nevada Theater

I see a trend here. My Springfield has two safeties. One on the trigger and one on above the Back strap in a proper holster it won't fire. This seems to be a case of getting made at the hammer when you smash your thumb with it.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Simply put, most of these people ND'ing are idiots. They've either done it the wrong way for years, they don't ever train properly and build up some good muscle memory doing things the right way, and/or they bought poor quality gear, and/or they failed to periodically check the status of their gear and make sure it was still functioning properly. Plain and simple.

I hate to ruffle any feathers but, just because someone has carried a gun for 30 or 40+ years, doesn't mean they've necessarily been doing it right the whole time. Doing something wrong for a long period of time doesn't make it any less wrong. A lot has changed in our society. We now no longer accept substandard gun handling or gun carrying, compared to what may have been acceptable a few decades ago. Hell, look at the SEALs. Back in the 70's during the Vietnam war, it was finger in the trigger guards at pretty much all times. This is clearly evident in pictures from that era, and there are many former SEALs from that era that have stated as much. Actually, that was probably pretty much every one, but I use the SEALs as an example as people look to special operations units like that to judge what is good and what is not. Fast forward to today, and that type of weapon handling is absolutely not acceptable.

Bottom line, buy good quality gear and don't put your finger on the trigger until you intend to pull it. Practice dry and build up some muscle memory with the trigger finger index. Honestly, this is really no big deal at all. Coboblack, I'm sure you've built up plenty of muscle memory with different martial arts techniques that you practice. This will be a walk in the park for you, it's really no different. Don't let the "what if's" get to you. You can do this.

 

[JDKinman]

Your body will react how its trained to, whether for footbal, jiu-jitsu, drawing a pistol or shooting a target. Like I said, I know officers who've died because they made a habit of picking up magazines at the range so in a fire fight, instead of ducking for cover, the picked up their magazines and got shot. If you train to draw and chamber a round, you will do it, even while scare, half unconcious, walking on unsure footing or any other scenario. I speak from experience. You fight like you train.

I wish that were always true, but it's not. Ask any combat vet and they'll tell you of the guys they saw, firsthand, who either froze or reacted incorrectly when a firefight started. Ask any cop who's seen or witnessed the same thing. For that matter, I have better than half my life invested in one dojo or another and I've seen advanced belts freeze when violently accosted--and know one who is permanently damaged because while physically he was prepared to do battle, mentally he wasn't.

I would paraphrase your statement by saying your body will react how your MIND has trained it to react.

JD

 

[scap99]

I personally run Armordillo Concealment because they seem to have the most options to customize your holster on the order page... you can choose the thickness, what size waist you are, if you gun has a tac light, if you want a 10 degree cant, etc.... also, they come in normal OWB belt loops, but they have optional IWB attachments, which is what I got.... Just holler back if you have any questions about them or anything else man!

Is that what you used Saturday?
If so, it was a very nice holster.


Sent without thinking via tapatalk.

 

[scap99]

Run a threat threshold drill with both a loaded chamber and empty chamber.

If you are comfortable with not letting a threat get closer than your empty chamber distance, then you are good to go.

We ran this drill on both Saturday and Sunday as a demonstration, and it works out to about 20-25' for me to clear concealment, and put a single shot on paper. I think my distance would be 30+ feet if I had to chamber a round. Assuming my other hand is available to rack the slide. Make it 40' if I have to rack it off my heel, pocket, or thigh.


Sent without thinking via tapatalk.

 

[thack1963]

I tend to be "tactical gear queer" so I like gear that "high speed, low drag" LOL! But seriously, if your importance is more capability rather than comfort when it comes to IWB holsters, then custom kydex holsters are the way to go, hands down IMO. One of the best is Raven Concealment... the problem is their turn around time is 6-8 months and I don't have the patience for that haha! Bravo Concealment and Armordillo Concealment are, IMO, just as good if not better and with only 6-8 WEEKS of turn around if not sooner.

I just ordered the Comp tac Minotaur MTAC Holster, will be happy to post a review of it, the production time is 5 days. I am waiting on my CHL so time is not that big an issue. I also ordered a dress belt from the same folks and extra belt clips. I will carry with one in the pipe.

 

[F350-6]

I wish that were always true, but it's not. Ask any combat vet and they'll tell you of the guys they saw, firsthand, who either froze or reacted incorrectly when a firefight started. Ask any cop who's seen or witnessed the same thing. For that matter, I have better than half my life invested in one dojo or another and I've seen advanced belts freeze when violently accosted--and know one who is permanently damaged because while physically he was prepared to do battle, mentally he wasn't.

I would paraphrase your statement by saying your body will react how your MIND has trained it to react.

JD

This is true. Some well trained folks freeze when the bullets start to fly, others flourish, but that's typically a small percentage at each end of the spectrum. For the majority, training until the motions become more of a reflex than an action is what makes the difference between life and death.

 

[coboblack]

Simply put, most of these people ND'ing are idiots. They've either done it the wrong way for years, they don't ever train properly and build up some good muscle memory doing things the right way, and/or they bought poor quality gear, and/or they failed to periodically check the status of their gear and make sure it was still functioning properly. Plain and simple.

I hate to ruffle any feathers but, just because someone has carried a gun for 30 or 40+ years, doesn't mean they've necessarily been doing it right the whole time. Doing something wrong for a long period of time doesn't make it any less wrong. A lot has changed in our society. We now no longer accept substandard gun handling or gun carrying, compared to what may have been acceptable a few decades ago. Hell, look at the SEALs. Back in the 70's during the Vietnam war, it was finger in the trigger guards at pretty much all times. This is clearly evident in pictures from that era, and there are many former SEALs from that era that have stated as much. Actually, that was probably pretty much every one, but I use the SEALs as an example as people look to special operations units like that to judge what is good and what is not. Fast forward to today, and that type of weapon handling is absolutely not acceptable.

Bottom line, buy good quality gear and don't put your finger on the trigger until you intend to pull it. Practice dry and build up some muscle memory with the trigger finger index. Honestly, this is really no big deal at all. Coboblack, I'm sure you've built up plenty of muscle memory with different martial arts techniques that you practice. This will be a walk in the park for you, it's really no different. Don't let the "what if's" get to you. You can do this.

Thanks, great information and a good way of looking at it.

 

[makeitcount]

I also own a minataur. I like it because you can adjust the height IWB and the cant and the modules can off for the type of gun you want to carry.
For my body type this was a great match. I went into stores and tried on the holsters first with the ones I knew I didn't like. I did this so I had base line
of things to start with. Sometimes it's easier to choose when you know what you don't like first off.

 

[Wolfwood]

Had it not been chambered, that wouldn't of happened. [/B]
.

More correctly, if he hadn't Pulled the trigger it wouldn't have happened.