Concealed Draw (Without one in the Chamber and with on in the chamber)

[coboblack]

So you cant chamber a round and be ready 2 seconds before needed at times, ever?

It took me 2 seconds at the MOST. I had my daugher say "Go" or "Boom" and could draw my holster, chamber it AND point it on average of 1-1.5 seconds. 2 being the slowest and under 1 second the quickest. But there are alot of other factors to vary in. I was calm, expecting it, I had my wits about me and both hands working.

One thing I need to work on, is stepping to the side instead of back...I noticed that. Stepping back, I stay in the line of fire, I should side step.

 

[TheRealT-Dawg]

One thing I need to work on, is stepping to the side instead of back...I noticed that. Stepping back, I stay in the line of fire, I should side step.

thats a good idea, but keep in mind, nothing is always certain... so i say practice moving every direction because situation dictates

 

[chris211]

Whomever believes a firearm is useless without a round in the chamber is in a closed minded mindset. One that carries without a round chambered will never, never ever have a chance to ND. Watch your surroundings and 90% of the time you will be aware of a possible threat. Yes there is still that chance that you will be caught off guard. Im willing to take that chance and not worry about being delicate with the pistol holstering and unholstering. For instance this morning I was in a very bad neighborhood and chambered my ruger before I got out of the car. WHen I left, I unchambered and went about my business. Its just like "what gun should I get" question. Its what works best for you.

I don't believe a weapon is useless without one in the chamber, less effective maybe. My chime in here is, if you are chambering and unchambering a round during the day, your likelyhood of a ND is many times more than mine, even with my carry one in the chamber style. A firearm is more likely to discharge during handling than while in a holster. The 0% is not realistic.

I place my carry weapon chambered, in my holster in the morning and don't touch it again until I take it off in the evening. My wallet is in back pocket, keys & cell phone opposite side. I even scratch my balls with my left hand. My holster protects my trigger and the only way it will fire is if the trigger is pulled.

I'm all for one doing what is comfortable, but to say this chamber one when needed, unchamber when not needed is safer, well it's not safer.

 

[scap99]

It took me 2 seconds at the MOST. I had my daugher say "Go" or "Boom" and could draw my holster, chamber it AND point it on average of 1-1.5 seconds. 2 being the slowest and under 1 second the quickest. But there are alot of other factors to vary in. I was calm, expecting it, I had my wits about me and both hands working.

One thing I need to work on, is stepping to the side instead of back...I noticed that. Stepping back, I stay in the line of fire, I should side step.

Was that from full concealment?
What were you using for a timer?



Sent without thinking via tapatalk.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Was that from full concealment?
What were you using for a timer?



Sent without thinking via tapatalk.

Did you see his video in the 1st post?

 

[Gramps]

+

= I'm out.


F' it you're not going to listen and we sure as hell are not going to convince you.

 

[TheRealT-Dawg]

^^^^ buahahahaha

 

[scap99]

Did you see his video in the 1st post?

Negative.


Sent without thinking via tapatalk.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I remember coming across a simple list awhile back that makes these things so easy. It was basically a "how to" on choosing techniques, and it pretty much applies to anything else.

1. Does it work?
   
2. Is it necessary?
   
3. Can you do it under stress?

The glaring issue with the Israeli method is that it basically completely negates the possibility of retention fire. You cannot fire from the #2 position just out of the holster, as you haven't been able to chamber a round yet. You pretty much cannot realistically fire from the #3 position either, as chambering a round and immediately firing probably poses a serious risk towards muzzle sweeping your hands. That is a pretty severe deficiency to just overlook IMO.

Although it's good to be objective and evaluate techniques, suffice it to say the Israeli method is a waste of time. No one of any significance in the instruction or professional shooting world uses or recommends it, and we've discussed a lot of the reasons why. There's much better things out there to spend this much effort evaluating, such as recoil management, trigger manipulation, retention fire techniques, avoidance.

 

[stalker19]

None of the Israeli specific shooting techniques hold water with me.

Including point shooting galore and no round in the chamber.

Just curious.... to anyone who's dabbled more in this. What do they do post-engagement, unload the gun before reholstering?

 

[specter77]

When I carried a 1911A1 as a weapons guard in the Marines, I was forced by Marine Corps Order to carry the pistol with an empty chamber. Luckily I had a personal owned 1911A1 and practiced the "Israeli" method of chambering during the draw. I had it down pretty well and felt reasonably comfortable however, to this day I always carry with a round under the hammer (I carry revolvers as well as semi-auto) for CHL. One last thing to go FUBAR in my opinion.

Semper Fi

Mike

 

[Robmoo]

Your best gun safety is your index finger. Control it and it doesn't matter if you have a round in the chamber.

 

[Roscoe]

To say its impossible to have a ND if you carry with an empty chamber makes no sense. Try drawing, chambering a round,
and firing when under stress - as in when you're being attacked. There's a good chance while you're chambering that round
with your hand on/near the trigger you could fire the gun before you bring it up on target.

The "Israeli Carry" technique is a bit of a misnomer. They used an empty chamber weapon in training for safety reasons resulting
from the military's use of often antiquated weapons. When IDF began standardizing issue weapons, they started
training with loaded guns. I've worked with, and around Mossad officers on a number of occasions in the past 25 years or so.
I've never, ever seen or heard of an Israeli agent carrying a pistol with an empty chamber. Its just not done.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

Though I firmly believe in carrying chambered, your logic totally escapes me. In what way is it irresponnsible, and to whom? Is not carrying a weapon at all irresponsible?

My apologies, sir. I thought I had responded to this way, way back.

I called carrying a weapon without a round in the chamber irresponsible because the person that does so (usually out of fear) is carrying a piece of equipment that they are not confident in.
That's it, to me. Plain and simple.

If someone's scared of their own gun, then I'm a little scared of being around them to some degree.
And, this is all my opinion - right or wrong. I intend no disrespect to anyone, and I sincerely apologize if what I've typed here offends anyone.

 

[majormadmax]

If someone's scared of their own gun, then I'm a little scared of being around them to some degree.

To be honest, I'm very scared of all firearms. They can be lethal or cause great injury, and like most people, I don't want to die or be hurt anytime soon.

But it's a positive fear, one that makes me sure that anything I handle a firearm I ensure I do so safely.

I consider carrying without a round in the chamber to be an irrational fear and an uncalculated risk. The sole purpose of carrying a firearm is to defend one's life or the lives of others. To do so, a person has to address the threat as quickly as possible. Adding an additional step to the process can easily mean the difference in successfully defending one's life to losing it.

One must always have a healthy respect (and fear) of the lethality of their weapons. Complacency is a killer!

Cheers! M²

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

I've carried a XD40SC as my on and off duty backup gun. Strapped to my body armor or an OWB holster under shirt. If it's not chambered, you're not ready. Time yourself in the living room, great....means nothing for stress. You may short stroke the slide(go ahead guys, out of context thread, lol), and cause your own failure. I've taught officers defensive tactics where they "nail" the technique....but, as seen on the street, they can complete the same defense or action, although it won't be as "clean" as in practice.

I personally seen the unchambered round as a time waster. Proper firearms discipline, weapon awareness, and equipment can keep you safe in everyday carry. How many agencies now carry a Glock, chambered, on duty? A large majority of all the officers I know who carry a backup on and off duty, have the 27 model or similar. ALL chambered.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

To be honest, I'm very scared of all firearms. They can be lethal or cause great injury, and like most people, I don't want to die or be hurt anytime soon.

But it's a positive fear, one that makes me sure that anything I handle a firearm I ensure I do so safely.

I consider carrying without a round in the chamber to be an irrational fear and an uncalculated risk. The sole purpose of carrying a firearm is to defend one's life or the lives of others. To do so, a person has to address the threat as quickly as possible. Adding an additional step to the process can easily mean the difference in successfully defending one's life to losing it.

One must always have a healthy respect (and fear) of the lethality of their weapons. Compliancy is a killer!

Cheers! M²

That's all true to some degree, though I would be more likely to use the word respect instead of fear.
You're weapon has the potential for great destruction. It can end and change lives, in the literal sense of the term.
It is healthy to respect the potential destructive power of your sidearm and treat it like a responsible adult.
While keeping a round out of the chamber would seem to make sense on the surface, when you look a little deeper, you find someone carrying something that they are not confident in.

 

[pvtsnowball82]

I can't believe this thread is still going! Anyway, you guys are all suckers...I only carry loose rounds, and I load them in the chamber one by one. :P

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

I can't believe this thread is still going! Anyway, you guys are all suckers...I only carry loose rounds, and I load them in the chamber one by one. :P

I just say "BANG!"

Even Chuck Norris will crap his pants, lol

 

[lalonguecarabine]

I can't believe this thread is still going! Anyway, you guys are all suckers...I only carry loose rounds, and I load them in the chamber one by one. :P

Yeah, sorry... it had died, then I resurrected it this morning when I was looking for something about holsters and found that comment that I had never responded to.
It's all my fault! You can throw a few bullets at me.