We need to make sure this does NOT work in Texas

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Read this:

Gun Grabbing liberal left loonies (O Great One) | Survival Monkey Forums

We need to push our legislators to let the fiends in Washington D.C. know that they are way out of line with this, and that this unconstitutional THEFT will not be tolerated here. Those days we always talked about seem to be creeping upon us, unfortunately. It's only a matter of time till the ATF is used to take away as many guns as possible. We can not let that happen.

 

[TXARGUY]

The original Washinton Times article will probably stir up more conversation than the Survival Monkey Forums post.

GHEI: ATF's latest gun grab - Washington Times

Note to self: If I have nothing to hide I have nothing to fear. (repeat until believed)

 

[stdreb27]

so they're saying if they think you like to hit up the bong, they can seize the gun? (didn't have time to read the article)

 

[TXARGUY]

so they're saying if they think you like to hit up the bong, they can seize the gun? (didn't have time to read the article)

Pretty much an accurate summary.

 

[mantawolf]

The 'I have nothing to hide' argument is crap.

'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy by Daniel Solove :: SSRN

 

[Younggun]

Luckily I've started selling mine off so I won't be affected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TXARGUY]

I spilled bong water on all of my guns so I took them to the lake to wash them off and I'll be dammed if every one of them didn't get caught by the current and sank right then and there. I might have been able to save them but I was too drunk and high.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

The original Washinton Times article will probably stir up more conversation than the Survival Monkey Forums post.

GHEI: ATF's latest gun grab - Washington Times

Note to self: If I have nothing to hide I have nothing to fear. (repeat until believed)

The thing is all they have to do is say, "We think TXARGUY is involved with drug activity", and that will give them "justification" to take your guns. Which you'll probably never see again. It's not about whether or not you have something to hide, this is yet another over reach by the dictator to circumvent the 2nd Amendment, among several other parts of the Constitution. They won't be going after drug users/dealers, they'll be going after anyone who they want to disarm. It's the bypassing of due process that is the issue here. It's more or less potentially a bunch of thugs coming in your house and stealing your shit. Plain and simple. Thugs with black uniforms that say ATF on them. Of course this is 100% illegal, as is ANY president circumventing Congress to do ANYTHING, but who's stopping them? Nobody obviously.

All I have to say is this, I don't want my valuables stolen, so they are in a safe place. It's a sad day when you have to safeguard your valuables from your own damn government, because they have become a bunch of thugs. Now I almost know how Mexico feels.

 

[jordanmills]

People were all for civil forfeiture when they were told it was the only way to stop the drug lords.

 

[London]

These laws have been around for a long time. Everyone from the DEA to small town police use them. I'm really surprised the ATF just got with the program. It is a real bitch to fight because along with your property, your bank account can also be seized. Good luck hiring a lawyer with an IOU.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

These laws have been around for a long time. Everyone from the DEA to small town police use them. I'm really surprised the ATF just got with the program. It is a real bitch to fight because along with your property, your bank account can also be seized. Good luck hiring a lawyer with an IOU.

I've never heard of a law that says they can seize your property just by accusing you of a crime. Not even charging you, just literally saying, "this guy's involved with drugs". This happened just last week, the Justice Department decided that the ATF can seize firearms from anyone they want, as long as they claim to suspect them of drug activity....No evidence, just "I suspect this guy of drug activity". That pretty much leaves the door wide open for some serious violations of civil rights. Seems like we're already living under a mild dictatorship. These are the reasons my parents, grandparents, etc...used to tell me how lucky I am to be an American...because this kind of things happens in countries that are not free. Well, looks like we are not gonna be the "land of the free" much longer if these kind of things go much further. At some point, something's got to give. Americans naturally have too much fight in them to let their government walk all over them like this.

And I personally would have never been "okay" with civil forfeiture just because there are bad people in the world. Once again, that would be them trying to punish everyone who "didn't do it", for the crimes of the ones who DID do it. That's pretty much gun control in a nutshell.

I personally think this whole thing was set up just to find a way to steal people's guns. It's no secret the government does not like the fact that the people of this nation are armed. It stops them from literally taking ALL of our rights away, and that is a problem for them.

 

[GPtwins]

Is this about the RICO law? That is the one that allowed LEA to confiscate property and moneys they believed were obtained through nefarious means.

 

[shortround]

Easy now ...

First off, they have to have evidence.

No evidence, no case.

I don't think we are so far down the road ... yet.

 

[M. Sage]

I've never heard of a law that says they can seize your property just by accusing you of a crime. Not even charging you, just literally saying, "this guy's involved with drugs". This happened just last week, the Justice Department decided that the ATF can seize firearms from anyone they want, as long as they claim to suspect them of drug activity....No evidence, just "I suspect this guy of drug activity". That pretty much leaves the door wide open for some serious violations of civil rights. Seems like we're already living under a mild dictatorship. These are the reasons my parents, grandparents, etc...used to tell me how lucky I am to be an American...because this kind of things happens in countries that are not free. Well, looks like we are not gonna be the "land of the free" much longer if these kind of things go much further. At some point, something's got to give. Americans naturally have too much fight in them to let their government walk all over them like this.

And I personally would have never been "okay" with civil forfeiture just because there are bad people in the world. Once again, that would be them trying to punish everyone who "didn't do it", for the crimes of the ones who DID do it. That's pretty much gun control in a nutshell.

I personally think this whole thing was set up just to find a way to steal people's guns. It's no secret the government does not like the fact that the people of this nation are armed. It stops them from literally taking ALL of our rights away, and that is a problem for them.

Forfeiture laws have been around a long time, actually. They don't even accuse you, they bring charges against your property or money.

It's very lucrative, and agencies often get to keep half of the auction proceeds or money seized, which is the real reason they like these laws.

 

[stdreb27]

Every once in a while you'll see some story about some podunk PD keeping large amounts of cash. That simply because we're this close to the border. They think its drug money.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Every once in a while you'll see some story about some podunk PD keeping large amounts of cash. That simply because we're this close to the border. They think its drug money.

I've heard of crooked cops doing things like that, but never have I heard of them taking people's property just because "they suspect" illegal activity, under protection of the law. I've heard of that happening in other countries, but not here. Unless the people WERE involved with illegal activity, and the police were too (which would be the reason the people's property was "seized", but they were not charged with a crime...basically a thug with a badge robbing a thug without one).

But never have I heard of someone's property being stolen just because someone says they are breaking the law....with no evidence...or if they have evidence, and are taking people's property, why aren't they also being charged with a crime? From what I'm reading here, you don't even have to be charged.

I mean if our government were the least bit trustworthy I'd say, "well, stay away from criminals and you have nothing to worry about". But this is also the same government who recently decided that people who reference the Bible and the Constitution on a regular basis (and people who regularly buy coffee from Starbucks, paying in cash...yeah, I'm not kidding..)...are potential terrorists....Anyway, I'd think they'd get the shit sued out of them if they did that. Maybe I just have been misunderstanding the legal process altogether, in my 33 years of life, but still...this is something I'm first hearing about.

My point is that it is no secret they do not like the fact that the citizens of this nation are armed, and this type of "loophole" can pretty much give them "legal basis" to take ANYONE's firearms, just by saying, "I suspect this person is on drugs". Seems like they could say that about pretty much everybody, if it meant they'd get to take their guns. Of course like I said that is (or "seems" at least to me) totally illegal...but I guess if there is nobody enforcing the law, they can do whatever they want.

 

[jordanmills]

Easy now ...

First off, they have to have evidence.

No evidence, no case.

I don't think we are so far down the road ... yet.

Yes, but they don't have to have evidence against YOU. Just against someone who has the flimsiest association with you, even without your knowledge.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Yes, but they don't have to have evidence against YOU. Just against someone who has the flimsiest association with you, even without your knowledge.

Meaning if you work with a closet coke head, your guns can be taken. The thing is they don't even have to prove anything, they can just "claim" to suspect it. Which means they can literally make up some bullshit story to take people's guns. I mean, I'm sure they'd run into some serious opposition after word got out that they were doing this, but just the fact that they are so determined to disarm Americans they are willing to completely pull reasons out of thin air, is just extremely disappointing.

 

[stdreb27]

I've heard of crooked cops doing things like that, but never have I heard of them taking people's property just because "they suspect" illegal activity, under protection of the law. I've heard of that happening in other countries, but not here. Unless the people WERE involved with illegal activity, and the police were too (which would be the reason the people's property was "seized", but they were not charged with a crime...basically a thug with a badge robbing a thug without one).

But never have I heard of someone's property being stolen just because someone says they are breaking the law....with no evidence...or if they have evidence, and are taking people's property, why aren't they also being charged with a crime? From what I'm reading here, you don't even have to be charged.

I mean if our government were the least bit trustworthy I'd say, "well, stay away from criminals and you have nothing to worry about". But this is also the same government who recently decided that people who reference the Bible and the Constitution on a regular basis (and people who regularly buy coffee from Starbucks, paying in cash...yeah, I'm not kidding..)...are potential terrorists....Anyway, I'd think they'd get the shit sued out of them if they did that. Maybe I just have been misunderstanding the legal process altogether, in my 33 years of life, but still...this is something I'm first hearing about.

My point is that it is no secret they do not like the fact that the citizens of this nation are armed, and this type of "loophole" can pretty much give them "legal basis" to take ANYONE's firearms, just by saying, "I suspect this person is on drugs". Seems like they could say that about pretty much everybody, if it meant they'd get to take their guns. Of course like I said that is (or "seems" at least to me) totally illegal...but I guess if there is nobody enforcing the law, they can do whatever they want.

Let me find the case, the details (off the top of my head) was cops pull over search car, find 20k-ish in cash family had as down payment for something seize it, under drug laws. Family cleared, cops keep cash, family sues, judge rules for family, still has problems getting cash back. Point article was written.

Sure at that point they're crooked.

They weren't protected by law, at that point.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Let me find the case, the details (off the top of my head) was cops pull over search car, find 20k-ish in cash family had as down payment for something seize it, under drug laws. Family cleared, cops keep cash, family sues, judge rules for family, still has problems getting cash back. Point article was written.

Sure at that point they're crooked.

They weren't protected by law, at that point.

Well yeah, I know that having more than 10K in cash on you at one time is probable cause for "suspicious activities", but obviously this couple had a legitimate reason. Then of course the police, being susceptible to greed like any other human being, are going to do whatever they possibly can to avoid giving the $$$ back..

I still this is just another move to disarm as many people as possible. Check out this article:

Mainstream Doctors Say Supporting the 2nd Amendment is a Mental Disorder

Looks to me like they're trying to find any loophole they can to deny people's 2nd Amendment rights. I'm pretty much convinced that nearly anything they do, has an ulterior motive, if not many.