Zimmerman Trial: Tired of media bias? See gun-friendly legal coverage

[Trueno]

Nancy Grace will claim the wreck was staged.

t

 

[F350-6]

No mention of George getting himself into another pickle yet? When is that boy going to learn to NOT GET OUT OF THE CAR?

George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding to Rescue Family Trapped in SUV - ABC News

 

[Acera]

No mention of George getting himself into another pickle yet? When is that boy going to learn to NOT GET OUT OF THE CAR?

George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding to Rescue Family Trapped in SUV - ABC News

Maybe not in this thread, but it was worthy of it's own thread a bit after 1:00pm this afternoon.

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/news-articles/49209-zimmerman-helps-after-truck-crash.html


You seriously think this crowd would miss such a thing, LOL????

 

[M. Sage]

This has been a somewhat heated topic in my house since the verdict. Generally, my girls are as right-wing as their daddy, but with this incident there has been some discussion.

It can be argued that Zimmerman took some actions that were not tactically wise decisions. He followed Martin against the directions of the 911 operator (even though the authority of the 911 operator can be argued). He got out of his vehicle. He lost sight of Martin and allowed himself to get into a position in which Martin could jump him easily. Each of these actions is tactically poor. But none of them were illegal.

My girls are arguing that had Zimmerman not followed Martin, had Zimmerman not gotten out of his vehicle, he would not have been in a position in which shooting Martin became necessary. I follow their logic. But the logic, if used to prosecute (persecute?) Zimmerman, could also be used against any other citizen who used deadly force in defense of himself; after all, if you had only stayed in bed this morning, you would not have gone to work, you would not have earned money, you would not have been paid, you would not have had to go to the bank to deposit your hard-earned money, and you would not have rudely and inconveniently interrupted the attempted bank robbery of the upstanding but misunderstood former miscreant who you tragically shot dead when he pointed his gun at you. His blood is on your hands. Their logic is flawed, but they're kids. I'm trying to fix it.

I am using the incident as a case study in how to think about the consequences of your actions long before you take action that would result in the consequences. I think it can be argued that nobody besides Martin's family regrets the outcome more than Zimmerman; I seriously doubt that he feels "vindicated" or "good" about it. I think the best he will ever get is that as bad as he feels, he understands it could have been much worse. And I'll almost guarantee that he knows what he did wrong and he will never do that again.

This is the basis of my discussion with my girls.

Just curious, but what argument is there about the authority of someone who has none by any real measure? Even the operator who took the call said that if he ever gave directions, he was directly liable for the result.

 

[V-Tach]

IIRC......the 911 operator said "you don't need to do that"........

I do not see that as giving him direction......or telling him not to do something or do....anything.

jmho....if that is what the 911 operator actually said......

 

[Trueno]

IIRC......the 911 operator said "you don't need to do that"........

I do not see that as giving him direction......or telling him not to do something or do....anything.

jmho....if that is what the 911 operator actually said......

Doesn't matter, point is moot, 911 operator has no authority.

t

 

[V-Tach]

Oh Yes, certainly I agree........

Too bad a lot of folks don't understand either point..........

 

[M. Sage]

IIRC......the 911 operator said "you don't need to do that"........

I do not see that as giving him direction......or telling him not to do something or do....anything.

jmho....if that is what the 911 operator actually said......

Close enough. Google it and it should be "OK, we don't need you to do that."

Quoted that BS so often I have it memorized...

 

[steve-o]

 

[RetArmySgt]

I see.

It is important to note the the 911 operators did NOT tell GZ not to get out of his vehicle. He was told it wasn't needed.

I don't believe it was a smart move either. However, the ultimate mistake was made by TM.

I think something you might discuss in depth with your daughters would be martins actions. Had he dialed 911 because someone was following him he would be alive today. He was near his home, had he kept an eye on Zimmerman and continues that short distance he would be alive today.

Had he even hollered " can I help you" he would probably still be alive today.

Instead, he chose to initiate a violent confrontation which lead Zimmerman to take action in order to defend his own life.

Didnt his friend he was on the phone with testify that he told her he was in his dads girlfriends backyard? That would mean that he turned around and left the house to go and attack GZ.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Didnt his friend he was on the phone with testify that he told her he was in his dads girlfriends backyard? That would mean that he turned around and left the house to go and attack GZ.

Yep, why didn't he just go inside & call it a night....

 

[itchin]

Because he wanted to smash the creepy ass cracker's head in.

 

[TheDan]

Just what lesson HAS this taught our children. I'm ask with genuine curiosity.

What people should learn from this is to never start a physical confrontation unless you absolutely have to.

GZ is a dumbass for following TM, however it's not illegal to follow someone.
TM escalated it to a physical confrontation first by punching GZ.
TM then escalated the assault to deadly force by getting on top of GZ when was on the ground and continuing to pound on him.

I've heard a lot of people say "it was just a fist fight; he didn't have to shoot him"... Well, a fist fight is all fun and games until one person is on top and continuing the attack. Bottom line on that issue is that if someone is on the ground and still being hit, it is deadly.

 

[M. Sage]

What people should learn from this is to never start a physical confrontation unless you absolutely have to.

GZ is a dumbass for following TM, however it's not illegal to follow someone.
TM escalated it to a physical confrontation first by punching GZ.
TM then escalated the assault to deadly force by getting on top of GZ when was on the ground and continuing to pound on him.

I've heard a lot of people say "it was just a fist fight; he didn't have to shoot him"... Well, a fist fight is all fun and games until one person is on top and continuing the attack. Bottom line on that issue is that if someone is on the ground and still being hit, it is deadly.

Yep. I posted a thread about a 17 year old beating a cop to death in El Paso by punching him in the face and hitting his head on concrete. People don't realize what can happen when your head meets concrete. I saw a study once where they determined a fall of just 3 feet was enough to cause brain injury.

 

[steve-o]

This is what gets me. The MSM has been trying to spin this as GZ racially profiling TM, when in fact the opposite occurred. TM didn't know what GZ wanted, referred to him as a "creepy ass cracka", and then attacked GZ instead of just running home. In fact he had a full 4 minutes to try to evade GZ, but he didn't. I'm not saying it was smart of GZ to get out of his vehicle and follow TM, and there were many chances for both parties to avoid the situation that occurred. What made him decide to stay and fight? What had TM been taught about white guys that made him feel that he needed to attack GZ?

Everything that Obama, Holder, FL State Prosecutors, and TM supporters want to be true of GZ, can easily be proven true of TM. He racially profiled GZ, and attacked him. But it's crazy for anyone to think that racial profiling could happen from TM to GZ, the concept of racism/hate crimes coming from anyone other than a white person is considered absurd in many circles. This trial is getting the kind of attention that would lead me to believe that there are large numbers of racist white guys hunting down and murdering innocent african american children. Is this happening? I don't think it is, but that's what the msm is trying to have us think.

 

[stdreb27]

This has been a somewhat heated topic in my house since the verdict. Generally, my girls are as right-wing as their daddy, but with this incident there has been some discussion.

It can be argued that Zimmerman took some actions that were not tactically wise decisions. He followed Martin against the directions of the 911 operator (even though the authority of the 911 operator can be argued). He got out of his vehicle. He lost sight of Martin and allowed himself to get into a position in which Martin could jump him easily. Each of these actions is tactically poor. But none of them were illegal.

My girls are arguing that had Zimmerman not followed Martin, had Zimmerman not gotten out of his vehicle, he would not have been in a position in which shooting Martin became necessary. I follow their logic. But the logic, if used to prosecute (persecute?) Zimmerman, could also be used against any other citizen who used deadly force in defense of himself; after all, if you had only stayed in bed this morning, you would not have gone to work, you would not have earned money, you would not have been paid, you would not have had to go to the bank to deposit your hard-earned money, and you would not have rudely and inconveniently interrupted the attempted bank robbery of the upstanding but misunderstood former miscreant who you tragically shot dead when he pointed his gun at you. His blood is on your hands. Their logic is flawed, but they're kids. I'm trying to fix it.

I am using the incident as a case study in how to think about the consequences of your actions long before you take action that would result in the consequences. I think it can be argued that nobody besides Martin's family regrets the outcome more than Zimmerman; I seriously doubt that he feels "vindicated" or "good" about it. I think the best he will ever get is that as bad as he feels, he understands it could have been much worse. And I'll almost guarantee that he knows what he did wrong and he will never do that again.

This is the basis of my discussion with my girls.

Just tell them, Zimmerman had as much right to walk down that sidewalk as Martin did.

Getting out of the car is NOT an act of aggression.

 

[Trueno]

GZ is a dumbass for following TM, however it's not illegal to follow someone.

GZ was right for following TM, it was GZ's "job".

t

 

[hkusp1]

Wong thread.

 

[TheDan]

GZ was right for following TM, it was GZ's "job".

lol... no
I'd say he was right to be suspicious of him, but that was a very poor choice to follow.

 

[M. Sage]

lol... no
I'd say he was right to be suspicious of him, but that was a very poor choice to follow.

Poor choice as far as tactics go. Following someone who might want to hurt you is a great way to get jumped.