Target Sports

“The Art of Deception: Training for Online Covert Operations.”

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • matefrio

    ΔΕΞΑΙ
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 19, 2010
    11,249
    31
    Missouri, Texas Consulate HQ
    Here's the link to the full article on how Snowden's documents have made these practices come to light and are now confirmed. I've included a readers digest version of the article.

    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

    How agencies control, infiltrate, manipulate, and warp online discourse.

    Western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction.

    Surveillance agencies have vested themselves with the power to deliberately ruin people’s reputations and disrupt their online political activity even though they've been charged with no crimes, and even though their actions have no conceivable connection to terrorism or even national security threats.

    Two of the most common tactics are:
    (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets
    (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable.

    Deny, Disrupt, Degrade, Destroy, or Deceive

    Further dissecting how human beings can be manipulated online using “leaders,” “trust,” “obedience” and “compliance”:

    These agencies’ refusal to “comment on intelligence matters” – meaning: talk at all about anything and everything they do – is precisely why whistleblowing is so urgent, the journalism that supports it so clearly in the public interest, and the increasingly unhinged attacks by these agencies so easy to understand. Claims that government agencies are infiltrating online communities and engaging in “false flag operations” to discredit targets are often dismissed as conspiracy theories, but these documents leave no doubt they are doing precisely that.
    Guns International
     

    NOLA Jack

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2014
    331
    1
    They've been doing this offline for longer than I've been alive. Influencing others to get more pro US leaders is about the oldest trick in the book.
     
    Last edited:

    London

    The advocate's Devil.
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Sep 28, 2010
    6,287
    96
    Twilight Zone
    We are officially paying people huge salaries to be internet trolls.

    No, no, no. This is NOT what the Founders envisioned!
     

    NOLA Jack

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2014
    331
    1
    We are officially paying people huge salaries to be internet trolls.

    No, no, no. This is NOT what the Founders envisioned!

    Makes me wonder if "that guy" on every forum who is talking about chem trails is a derp or has the easiest job ever.
     

    NOLA Jack

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2014
    331
    1
    The news to this is the conformation that they are using these tactics and the blatant use on innocent before proven guilty folks.

    We've helped over throw prime ministers to reshuffle and hope for an ally, saying nasty things on the internet is laughable by comparison.
     

    Whistler

    TGT Addict
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 28, 2014
    3,448
    96
    Northeast Texas
    Historical precedent does not generally indicate use of such tactics by Federal Government against individuals who are not suspected of, charged with and/or convicted of any crime, particularly in lieu of traditional law enforcement. Regardless it is reprehensible such techniques be applied to the goal of fostering general division and dissent without accountability and arguably in violation of the Constitution.
     

    NOLA Jack

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2014
    331
    1
    Historical precedent does not generally indicate use of such tactics by Federal Government against individuals who are not suspected of, charged with and/or convicted of any crime, particularly in lieu of traditional law enforcement. Regardless it is reprehensible such techniques be applied to the goal of fostering general division and dissent without accountability and arguably in violation of the Constitution.

    I would say that the HUAC and McCarthyism are perfect historical examples.
     

    Whistler

    TGT Addict
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 28, 2014
    3,448
    96
    Northeast Texas
    While they share a similar if rudimentary technique, HUAC was more coercion and conducted in full view of the public and participation of the media, McCarthyism was similar though also with a stated goal and significant public awareness. McCarthy was censured and HUAC abolished, neither example was clandestine by nature (with the exception of withholding identities of accusers and in some cases the nature of charges) or denied by the perpetrators. In both cases the victims were suspected of and charged with crimes (however unfounded), they are similar in the use of disinformation and baseless accusation. The "news" here, as matefrio stated, is the emergence of proof that the secret operations exist as large scale SOP and are not the demented ravings of tin-foil hat conspiracy theory wack-jobs. My comment was predicated by the implied acceptance such despicable operations are (or should be) status quo.

    Wrong is still wrong even if everyone does it, right is still right even if no one does it. Should we accept/ignore evil simply because it is a familiar evil?
     

    NOLA Jack

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2014
    331
    1
    While they share a similar if rudimentary technique, HUAC was more coercion and conducted in full view of the public and participation of the media, McCarthyism was similar though also with a stated goal and significant public awareness. McCarthy was censured and HUAC abolished, neither example was clandestine by nature (with the exception of withholding identities of accusers and in some cases the nature of charges) or denied by the perpetrators. In both cases the victims were suspected of and charged with crimes (however unfounded), they are similar in the use of disinformation and baseless accusation. The "news" here, as matefrio stated, is the emergence of proof that the secret operations exist as large scale SOP and are not the demented ravings of tin-foil hat conspiracy theory wack-jobs. My comment was predicated by the implied acceptance such despicable operations are (or should be) status quo.
    You're absolutely right on all counts, my point was that the same tactics were used then, in plain view of the public, which is what this "revelation" has brought us to now. Reading that the government is privately doing what we've seen them do in plain view is less surprising to me than my response to seeing others surprised.

    As it relates to the foilers, their belief that this is some top secret plot accentuates their ignorance of history and modern technology. Believing a reasonable theory supported by historical precedent doesn't make you a tin foiler, believing that you're one of the "few who see the truth" does(I'm using "you" in the general sense, I don't mean you specifically).

    Wrong is still wrong even if everyone does it, right is still right even if no one does it. Should we accept/ignore evil simply because it is a familiar evil?

    Of course not and I'm certain I haven't seen anyone advocating that stance. A lack of surprise doesn't mean acceptance.
     
    Last edited:

    Whistler

    TGT Addict
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 28, 2014
    3,448
    96
    Northeast Texas
    Fair enough and I agree with your points, mostly I just enjoy the debate if that wasn't obvious. Nice to exchange thoughts with someone that understands it's just a discussion, thanks!
     

    NOLA Jack

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2014
    331
    1
    Fair enough and I agree with your points, mostly I just enjoy the debate if that wasn't obvious. Nice to exchange thoughts with someone that understands it's just a discussion, thanks!

    Same to you sir, listening to people agree with you is hardly an interesting conversation.
     

    Mexican_Hippie

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Feb 4, 2009
    12,288
    21
    Fort Worth
    When they use it on their own people internally it's a problem, and those responsible should be held accountable.

    We should never blindly trust that our leaders obediently execute the will of the people, nor that they actually fulfill their oath of compliance to the Constitution.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    TheDan

    deplorable malcontent scofflaw
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 11, 2008
    27,830
    96
    Austin - Rockdale
    The news to this is the conformation that they are using these tactics and the blatant use on innocent before proven guilty folks.
    *sigh* Not even that is news. What's sad is that people in the technology sector have been pointing these things out for decades. It was pretty well documented that the NSA did "something" to the code of Windows 95 way back when it was released. No one cared... I'm glad people are finally starting to care, but damn... Welcome to the party 'murica; you're late. Now lets fix this.


    edit to add: I'm pretty sure Alex Jones is one of these false flag provocateurs. He puts out just enough correct info to make his rantings seem plausible.
     

    NOLA Jack

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2014
    331
    1
    *sigh* Not even that is news. What's sad is that people in the technology sector have been pointing these things out for decades. It was pretty well documented that the NSA did "something" to the code of Windows 95 way back when it was released. No one cared... I'm glad people are finally starting to care, but damn... Welcome to the party 'murica; you're late. Now lets fix this.


    edit to add: I'm pretty sure Alex Jones is one of these false flag provocateurs. He puts out just enough correct info to make his rantings seem plausible.

    I dunno, if I was going to try to get someone to deceive the masses, I wouldn't use someone who looks bat shit crazy all the time.
     

    ROGER4314

    Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jul 11, 2009
    10,444
    66
    East Houston
    Good food for thought! It even gives me another thing to be grateful for when I count my blessings.

    I'm old, retired and my next destination in life is OUTTA HERE! This place is really F'ed up and checking out isn't entirely a negative thing!

    Mind you, I'd miss my dog and my Harley so I'm not ready to hit the road right now, but leaving for greener pastures OR a hotter climate isn't a bad idea................... Snicker

    Flash
     
    Top Bottom