1/4 MOA on a mil dot reticle?

[ussoldier1984]

Now please understand I love my scope and am not complaining at all just a question for my curiosity. I have the Nikon Monarch 3 4-16x42 mil dot reticle and the elevation and windage knobs are 1/4 inch per click at 100 yards. Why have a mildot reticle that doesnt use milliradian for elevation and windage? I know Mil is a finer adjustment vs moa 1/4 inch. I prefer the Mil dot reticle and I can use it (when at the proper magnification) to range objects. I have a laser range finder so I have verified that I am doing it correctly. But I hate doing the math lol. Do you think it is because most hunters use the moa?

 

[Younggun]

Now please understand I love my scope and am not complaining at all just a question for my curiosity. I have the Nikon Monarch 3 4-16x42 mil dot reticle and the elevation and windage knobs are 1/4 inch per click at 100 yards. Why have a mildot reticle that doesnt use milliradian for elevation and windage? I know Mil is a finer adjustment vs moa 1/4 inch. I prefer the Mil dot reticle and I can use it (when at the proper magnification) to range objects. I have a laser range finder so I have verified that I am doing it correctly. But I hate doing the math lol. Do you think it is because most hunters use the moa?

1/10mil is more than 1/4moa. Roughly 1/3" per click on most mil turrets. You can argue 1/20th mil turrets but they are much less common, about equal to 1/8th MOA turrets on the market so a comparable MOA scope still has a finer adjustment.


I'd say the reason for the mil/MOA scope is as you say. People are used to MOA and don't want to learn mils, but "mildot" sounds good even though an MOA reticle of the same type works just as well and even rounded to 1"/100yards is accurate enough for most ranges and targets people shoot at.


I see the mil/MOA scopes disappearing from the market as time moves forward. They really have no use, especially with more MOA reticles hitting the market.


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[AustinN4]

Either get a mil/mil or a moa/moa, but don't mix the 2.

 

[Younggun]

Keep in mind, your scope may not actually have "MOA" turrets ether. 1moa is slightly more than 1". 1.047 to be exact. Not that it matters much till you are shooting out there a ways and making big adjustments.


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[ussoldier1984]

1/10mil is more than 1/4moa. Roughly 1/3" per click on most mil turrets. You can argue 1/20th mil turrets but they are much less common, about equal to 1/8th MOA turrets on the market so a comparable MOA scope still has a finer adjustment.


I'd say the reason for the mil/MOA scope is as you say. People are used to MOA and don't want to learn mils, but "mildot" sounds good even though an MOA reticle of the same type works just as well and even rounded to 1"/100yards is accurate enough for most ranges and targets people shoot at.


I see the mil/MOA scopes disappearing from the market as time moves forward. They really have no use, especially with more MOA reticles hitting the market.


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I could of read wrong when researching or confused what I read on which one is courser. I think I did read that mil is courser but you can not believe every article you find on the interwebs. The main reason I went with the mil reticle was for ranging. Yep just read the article again. I confused the two on which was more precise. lol damn memory Thank you for correcting me. I am doing as much research as possible because as time goes on I want to be able to hit 1000 yards so I am studying and practicing as much as possible. Mainly for the knowledge and to be able to say I hit 1000 yards. lol

 

[ussoldier1984]

Keep in mind, your scope may not actually have "MOA" turrets ether. 1moa is slightly more than 1". 1.047 to be exact. Not that it matters much till you are shooting out there a ways and making big adjustments.


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The turrets do say 1/4 inch 100 yards and 1 click 7 mm at 100 meters

 

[Younggun]

I have a mil/mil scope and a MOA/MOA scope. I can't say that one is easier than the other for ranging.

If I ranged in meters the mil scope would have the advantage. Even figuring height of a man at 1000 yards and simplifying MOA to 1"/100 yards you will be plenty close enough to hit your target as long as your door is figured in clicks on the turret. Any adjustments for a miss will be based on the hash marks in the reticle which should accurately match the turrets.


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[Younggun]

The turrets do say 1/4 inch 100 yards and 1 click 7 mm at 100 meters

There are a couple of manufactures which offer turret/reticle combos in "shooters MOA" which is exactly 1"/100 yards.


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[ussoldier1984]

I know I have work to go to get out to 1000 yards but as of now I am getting 1/2inch to 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards. I regularly practice my fundimentals and I am learning more. How could I tell if the scope is the actual moa turrets?

 

[Younggun]

Set up a target at 100 yards and shoot a group, then adjust up 40 clicks and shoot another group. If it's 10" between the center of the groups your scope is 1/4" clicks, if it's 10.5" between groups your scope is 1/4moa/click.


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[Younggun]

Don't leave your ammo in the sun while testing. It could get hot and gain some velocity throwing off the results. But if bet it's 1/4" if that's what is marked on the turret, MOA turrets are usually marked as such.


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[ussoldier1984]

its marked 1/4" click 100 yards. So next question if you do not mind me asking. at 12x power the scope is for mil dot ranging which as I stated I have figured out no problem verified with laser range finder that I was accurate (used meters) on both laser range finder and scope math calculation. How can I use the mil dot to easily calculate adjustments when the turrets are 1/4 inch? For example I am zeroed at 100 yards. lets say I have 3 tagets down range one at 100 (the zero) one at lets say one at 200 yards and one at 300 yards. How can I easily figure out how to use the mil dots to adjust elevation without changing my turrets? Make sense?

 

[Younggun]

You keep a card with your dope handy, possibly attached to your rifle.

This is why having mixed scopes is a pain. You have to have two sets of dope (or be really good at math in your head) to know your hold offs and your turret adjustments.

Or at that range, know that one mil is roughly 3.5 MOA. But that is gonna cause issues as the range gets further out.

It's a mess.


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[Younggun]

My drop for my .308 is about 4.5 MOA. If I were to hold off on a mil reticle I would have to divide 4.5 by 3.5 to get an estimated hold off. It wouldn't be exact, but close enough. That would give me a hold of 1.28mil.

The true hold off at that range should be 1.309 (give or take a few thousandths. Pretty close. But that accuracy will fade as distance increases and the MOA to inch difference grows, as well as increased hold off distance. Never really worked it out at longer ranges to see how much, it's something I want to avoid, lol.


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[ussoldier1984]

I am contemplating maybe a different scope that is not mixed but damn my scope was 500 bucks lol. I am messing around with nikon's spot on app online that lets you input the nikon scope and weapon and bullet zero range and target range and it builds a table for hold off and what not. still all very new to me. I am used to a basic crosshair scope and when it came to longer shots I was in the Army and used iron sights up to 300 meters. Although always qualified expert I never was trained on scopes in the military.

 

[Younggun]

Check out Vortex. Hard to go wrong with the PST line. Or you can pick up a fixed power SWFA SS for about $300 if you are on a budget and get a very high quality "no frills" scope.

Whatever DOPE Nikon gives you will be a fair estimation, but only a ballpark figure to what your rifle and ammo will actually do.

Your Nikon scope probably doesn't have enough travel to shoot 1K. Not sure what model you have or caliber you're shooting, just a guess though.

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[ussoldier1984]

I am on a budget for about 550 and less I looked at a vortex viper hst 16x44 or was it 42 but it had the tick marks for moa It was considered a 1 moa scope I liked it but trying to see my other options. they did not have a pst in stock there. what do you know about the vortex viper hst models?

 

[Younggun]

I think Dawico runs an HST, and possibly Orbitup but I can't remember. Nothin wrong with having MOA/MOA. The main reason I have started to prefer mil is the numbers feel more simple.

Ex: MOA of 14.75=4.4 mil. I like the smaller numbers even though they mean the same thing. Although at 1k you are looking at 3.6"/click vs 2.6"/click. I highly doubt I will ever shoot good enough to see that difference.

If you have the opportunity, go to the SWFA store in Midlothian, it's of 287 (think that's the right highway, Google to be sure). They have lots of scopes you can look through and compare including Vortex and SWFA, Nikon, S&B, etc.

If you go to the front window there are some spotting scopes lined up. Look through them and find a transformer and street light on a pole across the highway and a large field. That is right around 1100 yards. Then check it out through the different scopes, get a feel for the turrets, etc and see what you like.

The guys there are also very knowledgable. Scopes can actually be a pretty personal choice because my favorite scope may not be yours, or you may prefer windage dots lower in the scope where it feels a little too "busy" for my taste.

For an expensive purchase, it's worth the drive to get hands on with the glass before you buy.




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[Younggun]

I'm a big fan of both Vortex and SWFA optics.

I don't think you can beat the value of the SWFA SS fixed power scopes anywhere with the standard line selling for $300 and the HD line for $400. They track well and I really like the reticle.

Vortex is an equal value but with more frills. Variable power, illuminated reticle, etc, and a warranty that I don't think any other manufacturer can match. The only negative I could think of about a vortex scope is that they are a little heavy. At least in the PST line.

Keep in mind, if your Nikon is a 1" scope you should probably budget for new rings. About $100 or so for a quality set.


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[Younggun]

What caliber are you shooting?

Edit: never mind, I looked in your other thread. You'll want to factor in a 20moa rail also (at least eventually) to shoot a .308 to 1,000 yards. Otherwise you will be at the very limit of your elevation adjustment or past it.




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