30.06 30.07 question

[SoThrowedMex]

I've been searching for an answer to this question for a long time now.

If a place has a 30.07 sign it means you cannot open carry, so common sense says that if one cannot open carry, then they can only conceal carry.

With that logic in mind

If a place has a 30.06 sign, then it means you cannot conceal carry, so common sense says that if one cannot conceal carry, then they can only openly carry?

it would be as simple as flipping your shirt up and exposing your firearm to change from conceal carrying to openly carrying.

I've asked this before on a YouTube video comment section and someone said there will never be a 30.07 sign without a 30.06, but I have witnessed this on more than one occasion. Mostly at gas stations and trust me I search high and low up and down and don't always see both signs posted.

 

[Army 1911]

If it only has a 30.97 then you can cc.

. Just don't bring up their lack of 30.06 or .05 to them.

 

[majormadmax]

You're overthinking it, but it is a bit complicated...

If a 30.06 sign, that simply means no concealed carry for license (LTC) holders.

For 30.07, it's the same for open carry for LTC holders.

If the property owner wants to prohibit both, they must display both signs.

Also, neither apply to those carrying unlicensed (i.e., Constitutional carry. As of September 1, 2021, HB 1927 removed the requirement to have a license to carry in order to carry a handgun).

Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code has an option for private property owners to post a sign that prohibits the carry of firearms (handguns and long guns) on the property:

(c) A person may provide notice that firearms are prohibited on the property by posting a sign at each entrance to the property that:

(1) includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following:
'Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm';
(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;
(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Because of the way the law is written, it is a "defense to prosecution" under Section 30.05 if the person who is charged with a crime was carrying a handgun with a license to carry and certain other criteria were met.

So it is possible a private property owner would need to post multiple signs in order to ban both unlicensed carry and licensed carry.

 

[Bozz10mm]

If there is only a 30.06 sign, then by law you can open carry with an LTC. But rest assured, when they will ask you to leave, you must. Or rather, should.

 

[Renegade]

I've been searching for an answer to this question for a long time now.

If a place has a 30.07 sign it means you cannot open carry, so common sense says that if one cannot open carry, then they can only conceal carry.

With that logic in mind

If a place has a 30.06 sign, then it means you cannot conceal carry, so common sense says that if one cannot conceal carry, then they can only openly carry?

it would be as simple as flipping your shirt up and exposing your firearm to change from conceal carrying to openly carrying.

I've asked this before on a YouTube video comment section and someone said there will never be a 30.07 sign without a 30.06, but I have witnessed this on more than one occasion. Mostly at gas stations and trust me I search high and low up and down and don't always see both signs posted.

It is not "common sense" it is the law.

To ban LTC, you need both signs.

I see lots of 30.07, without the 30.06. They just do not want open carry.

I have only seen 1or 2 places with 30.06 and not 30.07.

 

[SoThrowedMex]

If it only has a 30.97 then you can cc.

. Just don't bring up their lack of 30.06 or .05 to them.

I understood this as well, and i'd never bring that attention to myself.

You're overthinking it, but it is a bit complicated...

If a 30.06 sign, that simply means no concealed carry for license (LTC) holders.

For 30.07, it's the same for open carry for LTC holders.

If the property owner wants to prohibit both, they must display both signs.

Also, neither apply to those carrying unlicensed (i.e., Constitutional carry. As of September 1, 2021, HB 1927 removed the requirement to have a license to carry in order to carry a handgun).

Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code has an option for private property owners to post a sign that prohibits the carry of firearms (handguns and long guns) on the property:



Because of the way the law is written, it is a "defense to prosecution" under Section 30.05 if the person who is charged with a crime was carrying a handgun with a license to carry and certain other criteria were met.

So it is possible a private property owner would need to post multiple signs in order to ban both unlicensed carry and licensed carry.

Sorry, I overthink everything. My wife tells me this all the time. I am licensed to carry. I've never saw a 30.06 and switched to open carry. It's just a question. Sounds like you're saying exactly what I was "over thinking" though. I was on the right track.

If there is only a 30.06 sign, then by law you can open carry with an LTC. But rest assured, when they will ask you to leave, you must. Or rather, should.

I agree as I understood this to be true as well.

It is not "common sense" it is the law.

To ban LTC, you need both signs.

I see lots of 30.07, without the 30.06. They just do not want open carry.

I have only seen 1or 2 places with 30.06 and not 30.07.

Ok maybe common sense was the wrong choice of words. My bad, yea the law.
I don't/won't open carry anyway. I just hate having an LTC but yet still have to worry about where I am going on whether I can conceal carry or not.

The 30.06 app is helpful but not all locations are on there so I do my best to add to it when I can to help others like myself.

 

[Renegade]

If there is only a 30.06 sign, then by law you can open carry with an LTC. But rest assured, when they will ask you to leave, you must. Or rather, should.

This is where it gets tricky.

Do not think Open Carry is defined in the law (as in you must display gun in full view).

 

[oohrah]

And if you do open carry and they tell you that they don't allow it, you are now on permanent notice, per the law, and can never carry in that establishment again.

 

[Renegade]

And if you do open carry and they tell you that they don't allow it, you are now on permanent notice, per the law, and can never carry in that establishment again.

You are only barred if you are issued a Criminal Trespass notice.

 

[oohrah]

You are only barred if you are issued a Criminal Trespass notice.

I should have been more specific. If you have an LTC, you have been given "proper notice" and are banned. If you later wanted to claim CC carry, I would not want to test those waters.

 

[Renegade]

I should have been more specific. If you have an LTC, you have been given "proper notice" and are banned. If you later wanted to claim CC carry, I would not want to test those waters.

Oral notice has no more "banning" power than written notice.

I have been in several places (mostly restaurants) where open carry was banned via oral notice. While not directed at me, but a friend who OCs, all he did was cover up and they were happy. He was never banned.

 

[General Zod]

I have only seen 1or 2 places with 30.06 and not 30.07.

I've seen dozens. It's not as though property owners actually bother to understand the law, and the sign companies that make the signs are mostly out of state and don't get it either (I've even seen ones that try to combine the wording of .06 and .07, which invalidates both).

Most that post the signs seem to assume .06 covers all carry. As a sign designer, I can think of at least six clients who only requested .06 but stated in their emails that they didn't want firearms allowed on the property. No, I didn't volunteer any helpful info to correct their assumptions.

 

[rotor]

The real question is if they have 30.06 and .07 can you carry under permitless carry even though you have a LTC, assuming no 30.05 or equivalent sign?

 

[toddnjoyce]

The real question is if they have 30.06 and .07 can you carry under permitless carry even though you have a LTC, assuming no 30.05 or equivalent sign?

That’s easy; the answer is in the title of the statute(s).

The real question is if you’re a license holder but took license out of your wallet, does .06 or .07 apply?

 

[rotor]

That’s easy; the answer is in the title of the statute(s).

The real question is if you’re a license holder but took license out of your wallet, does .06 or .07 apply?

Well the title of 30.05 is “Criminal Trespass “ so if there is no 30.05 or equivalent but there are 06/07 signs are you trespassing? You are licensed when you have a LTC whether you carry it on your person as long as it is active, you just can’t carry under its authority unless it’s on your person. This of course awaits some legal challenge. Is a LEO that holds a LTC carrying under his LEO badge when he crosses past an 06/07 sign or the LTC in his wallet? I don’t know the answers.

 

[Renegade]

Well the title of 30.05 is “Criminal Trespass “ so if there is no 30.05 or equivalent but there are 06/07 signs are you trespassing? You are licensed when you have a LTC whether you carry it on your person as long as it is active, you just can’t carry under its authority unless it’s on your person. This of course awaits some legal challenge. Is a LEO that holds a LTC carrying under his LEO badge when he crosses past an 06/07 sign or the LTC in his wallet? I don’t know the answers.

Pretty much covers all the unknowns.

With that said, to get exemption for 46.0X, you need to have the license on your person. That would suggest you are not carrying "under authority", without it.


(b) Sections 46.02, 46.03(a)(14), and 46.04(a-1) do not apply to a person who:
...
(6) is carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a holster;

But then, we live in a world where a stock with no moving parts is a machine gun.

 

[ScottDLS]

That’s easy; the answer is in the title of the statute(s).

The real question is if you’re a license holder but took license out of your wallet, does .06 or .07 apply?

Father O'Malley, if God is all powerful, can He make a rock so big He can't lift it? -George Carlin

 

[Bozz10mm]

The real question is if you’re a license holder but took license out of your wallet, does .06 or .07 apply?

That's a good question. I'm going to say yes. If you leave your driver's license at home, you are still a licensed driver.

 

[ScottDLS]

That's a good question. I'm going to say yes. If you leave your driver's license at home, you are still a licensed driver.

If a Peace Officer has his LTC on him (or not) when he passes a 06/07 sign from which he is exempt, does he still face prosecution for trespass by a LTC?

 

[Bozz10mm]

If a Peace Officer has his LTC on him (or not) when he passes a 06/07 sign from which he is exempt, does he still face prosecution for trespass by a LTC?

I think your question answers itself. He is exempt.