30.06 and 30.07 signs

[Charlie]

If one takes care of business, there is no "printing"!
I'm sure I must have gone into some places that don't want people inside that are armed. If I'm aware of this, I definitely won't go in. I'll spend my money elsewhere. If someone is carrying concealed and actually has the weapon concealed, there is no issue. I'm not recommending anyone break the law, just use common sense.
Edit to add: I don't go out a great deal but when I do, I won't knowingly enter an establishment that doesn't want me in there.

 

[David S.]

I sent an email to a small business restaurant that was had .06/07 signs posted. I politely informed them that I drove out of my way to eat at their restaurant, saw the signs and proceeded to eat a couple doors down, simply based on the sign.

I didn't get a response, but a couple months later when I passed by the area, I noticed the signs were no longer posted. I have no idea if it was do to my email.

I guess there's a bunch of small proprietors that have no idea that they're loosing business to those signs. It might be worth the five minutes to let them know.

 

[rotor]

@Charley you said
A local convenience store I use because it has a contract post office in it has a no guns sign that doesn't meet legal requirements
The issue is what signs meet the legal requirements? 30.06/07 are well defined. Permitless carry not well defined. Don't quote me 30.05 as a simple gun buster might be enough for permitless carry. I too want to know what the "legal requirements" are. Nobody really knows yet.

 

[Zapp]

I sent an email to a small business restaurant that was had .06/07 signs posted. I politely informed them that I drove out of my way to eat at their restaurant, saw the signs and proceeded to eat a couple doors down, simply based on the sign.

I didn't get a response, but a couple months later when I passed by the area, I noticed the signs were no longer posted. I have no idea if it was do to my email.

I guess there's a bunch of small proprietors that have no idea that they're loosing business to those signs. It might be worth the five minutes to let them know.

That is a very reasonable suggestion. In this case, the restaurant is part of a trendy breakfast chain. And from the website posted earlier, it looks like all of their locations have at least a 30.07, and many also have the 30.06. I am guessing it may be a corporate policy.

 

[Axxe55]

That is a very reasonable suggestion. In this case, the restaurant is part of a trendy breakfast chain. And from the website posted earlier, it looks like all of their locations have at least a 30.07, and many also have the 30.06. I am guessing it may be a corporate policy.

A lot of corporate chains just have a blanket policy regardless of what state they are in.

 

[David S.]

That is a very reasonable suggestion. In this case, the restaurant is part of a trendy breakfast chain. And from the website posted earlier, it looks like all of their locations have at least a 30.07, and many also have the 30.06. I am guessing it may be a corporate policy.

No doubt, it won't work everywhere. But it's easy enough

"Dear owner of restaurant,

I would like to inform you that I honored the Texas 30.06 sign (No concealed weapons allowed) that you have posted at the entrance of your XXX location. I chose to spend my money elsewhere and your company lost a $15 dollar sale at lunch today because of your policy. Also because of your policy, I'm also unlikely to bother looking up your establishment in the future.

Have a nice day,
David S. "

 

[EZ-E]

Not quite sure you are right. 30.06 sign, you enter the store, you are printing enough to alert the management, they call the cops who show up fast (this is not Houston) and they get you for trespass. For sure if the cops tell you to leave and you don't they will arrest you but they may arrest you anyhow, at least I think they could. A legal sign, they don't have to give you a verbal "you must leave". What say you?

The cops show up fast anytime a "person with gun" call goes out ... even in Houston.

 

[mongoose]

@Charley you said
A local convenience store I use because it has a contract post office in it has a no guns sign that doesn't meet legal requirements
The issue is what signs meet the legal requirements? 30.06/07 are well defined. Permitless carry not well defined. Don't quote me 30.05 as a simple gun buster might be enough for permitless carry. I too want to know what the "legal requirements" are. Nobody really knows yet.

Does it really matter? Isn't illegal to carry in a Post Office?

 

[seeker_two]

The cops show up fast anytime a "person with gun" call goes out ... even in Houston.

Yeah....but they never prosecute anybody in Houston.....

 

[Charley]

Not a contract post office. Government USPS building, yes. Private business contract station, no.

 

[Fishkiller]

That saved me a trip there. I've been wanting to check that area out, and a museum would normally be on the to do list. Any other places in Fredericksburg you'd recommend visiting that don't have those signs?

Most any place here in the Big Town have no signs. The HEB has a .05 and .07. I was a bit surprised to see the signs at the museum as most places do not care. Not mane signs around. One would think that the wine tasting shops would have the 51% signs (but they do not), as they only sell wine and no food but then I do not enter these places. There are a couple of bars in town with the 51% sign, cuz they have to by law. In my discussions with several business owners they prefer no open carry as it scares away tourists., otherwise it is a nonissue.

 

[Grumps21]

Yeah....but they never prosecute anybody in Houston for fake paper plates, unlicensed dirt bikes ripping down the streets or parking in handicap spaces with no placards

Made a slight tweak to your comment, lol.

 

[Grumps21]

Most any place here in the Big Town have no signs. The HEB has a .05 and .07. I was a bit surprised to see the signs at the museum as most places do not care. Not mane signs around. One would think that the wine tasting shops would have the 51% signs (but they do not), as they only sell wine and no food but then I do not enter these places. There are a couple of bars in town with the 51% sign, cuz they have to by law. In my discussions with several business owners they prefer no open carry as it scares away tourists., otherwise it is a nonissue.

That part about .07 scaring away tourists makes sense. Personally, I think that most who post the .07 do so for that very reason, so I won’t hold that against them. They have to provide for their families too! I don’t think I’d ever open carry at a business anyway, so it’s a non issue for me. .06 on the other hand I do have a problem with.

 

[DoubleDuty]

This is what needs to be eliminated next. Enforceable signs.

 

[Axxe55]

A lot of the Dollar General stores have a 30-07 sign displayed.

I have only so far seen the 30-05 signs displayed at those check-cashing places and a payday loan place.

 

[DoubleDuty]

The dollar general stores around here just have the no unlicensed possession signs with a 10 year felony posted. They haven't kept up with CC

 

[toddnjoyce]

Not quite sure you are right. 30.06 sign, you enter the store, you are printing enough to alert the management, they call the cops who show up fast (this is not Houston) and they get you for trespass. For sure if the cops tell you to leave and you don't they will arrest you but they may arrest you anyhow, at least I think they could. A legal sign, they don't have to give you a verbal "you must leave". What say you?

I'll let DPS's stats do my talking for me. From 2016 thru 2020 (most recently available), there were 132,808 convictions for 30.05/.06/.07, 46.03, and 46.035 offenses. Of those, exactly three were .07 violations and one was .06. So, 4/132808 = .000030119, or .003% of convictions on the 23 PC citations that deal with criminal trespass and firearms Source.

Arrest data for the same period is 1,736,771, of which .06 or .07 accounts for five total arrests; at least one was not convicted. I'm not going to do the maths for a 5 in nearly 2 million chance of getting arrested. I don't think your anecdotal data is born out of reported and verifiable data. Oh yeah, of those arrests, exactly ZERO occurred in Harris County.

 

[Axxe55]

The dollar general stores around here just have the no unlicensed possession signs with a 10 year felony posted. They haven't kept up with CC

Like the signs you see in a liquor store?

 

[rotor]

I'll let DPS's stats do my talking for me. From 2016 thru 2020 (most recently available), there were 132,808 convictions for 30.05/.06/.07, 46.03, and 46.035 offenses. Of those, exactly three were .07 violations and one was .06. So, 4/132808 = .000030119, or .003% of convictions on the 23 PC citations that deal with criminal trespass and firearms Source.

Arrest data for the same period is 1,736,771, of which .06 or .07 accounts for five total arrests; at least one was not convicted. I'm not going to do the maths for a 5 in nearly 2 million chance of getting arrested. I don't think your anecdotal data is born out of reported and verifiable data. Oh yeah, of those arrests, exactly ZERO occurred in Harris County.

Interesting data but...
You said...
It takes a whole lot of effort for you to be trespassed and the trespasser can’t he prevented from leaving while waiting for an LEO to show up to formally trespass you. Then, if you’re like a lot of people, you have a defense to prosecution available, so you can tell that to the cop and he’ll likely say just don’t come back and there will be no formal record of trespass.

What is your defense to prosecution if you cross a 30.05 (or equivalent), 30.06/07 sign depending on permitless or LTC carry? If there is a 30.06 and you have a LTC and a shop keeper calls the cops because he saw you carrying what is your defense to prosecution? I understand that there may be very few cases convicted but what is the "defense to prosecution".

 

[toddnjoyce]

Interesting data but...
You said...
It takes a whole lot of effort for you to be trespassed and the trespasser can’t he prevented from leaving while waiting for an LEO to show up to formally trespass you. Then, if you’re like a lot of people, you have a defense to prosecution available, so you can tell that to the cop and he’ll likely say just don’t come back and there will be no formal record of trespass.

What is your defense to prosecution if you cross a 30.05 (or equivalent), 30.06/07 sign depending on permitless or LTC carry? If there is a 30.06 and you have a LTC and a shop keeper calls the cops because he saw you carrying what is your defense to prosecution? I understand that there may be very few cases convicted but what is the "defense to prosecution".

What’s my DtP? It’s right in .06(f) and in .07:

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01 .