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.50 cal hits woman at Texas Motor Speedway Sunday

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  • JKTex

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    I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet. Especially since the husband has vowed to work to a ban on .50 being sold to consumers because of it.

    cbs11tv.com - Woman Talks About Being Shot At TX Motor Speedway

    Woman hit by stray bullet at Texas Motor Speedway | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News

    I'm waiting for a DWI victim that goes after a full out ban on a specific model of vehicle because that's what a dumb ass drunk was driving.

    Still, whoever shot this thing needs their nuts in a sling. And there are a couple of ranges within 5 miles or so, besides a whole lot of open land.
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    Texas1911

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    There is an obvious error in judgment on behalf of someone. The gun had to have been fired into the air for it to travel into the infield where the RV's are located. It would have had to clear the stands all around the track.

    Stupid people are going to possibly cause stupid regulations, and ruin it for everyone.
     

    DrBart2

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    Typical knee-jerk reaction. The husband wants to outlaw .50 's. As said above, a 30'06 could have done the same thing. If it had been that caliber would the husband call for a ban on them? And how can anyone say that it was no accident? You can't know that without talking to the individual who fired the round. It was probably someone just being careless. Also, who decided it was a .50 cal? Do they know that for sure or is someone just assuming? Is it a police investigator saying it is a .50, or is someone guessing. Unfortunately, the only info we have here is from the press and we all know how accurate they can be!!!
     

    kville79

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    I'm having a mind boggling time trying to figure out the plausible trajectories and distance on this one.

    The origination of the shot would more than likely have been North/North East of the Track in the wooded area around Denton creek. That's my guess, considering the person who shot it would more than likely be popping off a few in an area further from population. That's also the only plausible location considering the trajectory (creak area is recessed, so who ever took the shot was angled upward when firing), and the damage... very light damage considering the size of the caliber indicates the shooter was more than 1 mile away and the Denton creek area is 1 1/2-2 miles away.

    Well that's just my speculation.

    As far as banning .50 cal? Is the guy ignorant? For all intentional purposes everything above .50 Cal is banned to begin with, why add restrictions upon already too restrictive gun laws. The size of the bullet had nothing to do with the shooters negligence in being aware of his point of aim. I'd like also to say that the commentary of the unnamed "Gun expert" in the second article was far from accurate, the military doesn't use the .50 cal for AA, well they did when the planes where low flying prop fighters... that comment gives the wrong impression.
     

    Texas1911

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    You could easily measure the entry hole and remove the bullet to determine it's caliber. That being said, a .30-caliber bullet would have yawed and / or tumbled at that long of a range and could impart a larger than normal hole.

    .50 BMG isn't exactly remotely near a .30-06 so it's rather distinguishable.

    I think the key here is that it still had enough inertia to punch through the RV roof, an arm, and then embed itself into the wall. That is a wee-bit more than a .30-caliber bullet would maintain at over a mile. With a downward trajectory of that magnitude you are pretty much relying on gravity for the energy.
     

    djspump2003

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    Yeah, the military only uses .50 cal to take down planes...that's why so many are mounted on turrets on Humvees! I forgot that the terrorists had air support over there.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    photo.jpg



    That definitely appears to be a .50bmg or something very close in size to one at least. It's tough to say for sure without knowing the size of that person's hands, however looking at the size in relation to their fingers you can tell it's definitely quite a bit bigger than a 7.62x51 or any other regular sized rifle round.
     

    JKTex

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    They have the round. It came through the roof, through her arm and lodged in the wall of the RV and was pretty much in tact.

    So they have angle of entry so they can tell which direction it came from and can likely estimate distance based on that to some degree.

    Anyone that knows that area knows there's tons of open land that's easily accessible by the public. There's also a couple of ranges in the area. One I go to is maybe 5 miles north. There's also a private one to the east, but it's a small pistol range.

    It just seems unlikely someone that would have a .50 cal would be careless enough to let it AD or ND or to even fire it into the air knowing what it could do.

    We'll see what they find.

    Oh, and I agree, even a .22 might have been able to do serious harm to her. But the .50 just has more potential.
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    The range 5 miles to the north is more like 3.5 miles north as I recall and does not allow .50 BMG, FMJ, and its ranges are oriented with firing from south to north.

    I know of no other public or club ranges in the area.

    FYI, here is an update on the shooting...



    Benbrook man says his bullet may have hit woman at Texas Motor Speedway

    03:55 PM CST on Tuesday, November 4, 2008

    By DAN X. McGRAW / The Dallas Morning News

    Fort Worth police are investigating reports from a 49-year-old Benbrook man who says he may be responsible for the stray bullet that hit an Arlington woman Sunday morning at Texas Motor Speedway.

    Kennith Jaramillo contacted Fort Worth police on Monday after hearing that Jill King Moss, 62, was hit in her arm by a .50-caliber bullet that pierced the roof of her RV, authorities said. Ms. Moss was taken to Harris Methodist Hospital and is expected to recover from her injuries.

    Given the bullet’s trajectory, Fort Worth police investigators believe the bullet came from a long distance away.

    Mr. Jaramillo told police he was target shooting five miles away from Texas Motor Speedway between 10 and 11 a.m, said Lt. Paul Henderson, a Fort Worth police spokesman. Mr. Jaramillo fired five or six rounds at a berm, a mound of dirt, with his .50-caliber Vulcan single shot rifle.

    Fort Worth police confiscated his weapon for ballistics tests. If tests confirm the bullet was fired from his weapon, Mr. Jaramillo could be charged with deadly conduct for recklessly firing a weapon, Lt. Henderson said.

    Mr. Jaramillo has not been arrested or charged in the incident.
     

    40Arpent

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    If it turns out that Jaramillo fired the round, does that mean he gets the $3,000 reward offered by the husband?

    Seriously, though, if it was truly an accident (i.e., unintended negligence), I wonder how many people here would have turned themselves in if they'd fired that shot.
     

    JKTex

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    The range 5 miles to the north is more like 3.5 miles north as I recall and does not allow .50 BMG, FMJ, and its ranges are oriented with firing from south to north.

    I know of no other public or club ranges in the area.

    FYI, here is an update on the shooting...

    You're right, and they do run a very tight ship too. They'll even let you know if you're getting subsequent shots off to quickly. Under normal operations, there's no way it would have come from there and in hind sight, I should have said something along those lines or not brought either one of them up.

    I will say, it's great news to hear that the guy came forward, and although it will suck for him if it turns out it was him. But at least it will show it was a mistake and not intentional.

    You gotta wonder about the berm he was shooting into. Geez, that would be a heck of a ricochet.
     

    JKTex

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    recklessly firing a weapon that ricocheted off of a berm, how in the world would that be a justifiable act of negligence....?

    that would be a truly an accident....

    Unfortunately I disagree. Look at the effort ranges go to in order to make sure all lead stays where it's intended. While an accident, and him making an effort to be safe, it may not have been enough for what he was shooting.

    It's like the guy in FW a few years back that had a piece of pipe fall off a trailer and bounce up and through the windshield of another car, killing the driver. The guy didn't even know what happened, but in the eyes of the law, he was negligent because he was responsible for making sure nothing fell off his truck/trailer.

    You can just hope that if these kinds of things go to court, there is maximum mercy shown, as the act itself is self inflicted punishment.
     

    AviatorDave

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    Typical knee-jerk reaction. The husband wants to outlaw .50 's. As said above, a 30'06 could have done the same thing. If it had been that caliber would the husband call for a ban on them? And how can anyone say that it was no accident? You can't know that without talking to the individual who fired the round. It was probably someone just being careless. Also, who decided it was a .50 cal? Do they know that for sure or is someone just assuming? Is it a police investigator saying it is a .50, or is someone guessing. Unfortunately, the only info we have here is from the press and we all know how accurate they can be!!!

    Based on the initial report - It was the husband that determined it was a .50. It was the husband that determined it came from several miles away. The wife that was hit said she heard a loud "explosion". Sorry lady, when a bullet comes in from several miles away, it doesn't sound like an explosion.

    Makes me wonder if someone was actually on top of her RV and did it by mistake. A son? The husband perhaps? Probably not, it probably did come from a long way off, but they way they describe it just doesn't make sense.

    Gotta wait for the rest of the details in this one.
     

    JKTex

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    Based on the initial report - It was the husband that determined it was a .50. It was the husband that determined it came from several miles away. The wife that was hit said she heard a loud "explosion". Sorry lady, when a bullet comes in from several miles away, it doesn't sound like an explosion.

    Makes me wonder if someone was actually on top of her RV and did it by mistake. A son? The husband perhaps? Probably not, it probably did come from a long way off, but they way they describe it just doesn't make sense.

    Gotta wait for the rest of the details in this one.

    Ya, the latest is, their 14 year old son was on top of the TV trying to get a good view. He accidentally fired off the roof mounted .50 cal though the roof, Mom's arm and it lodged in the tough interior wall of the RV.

    Sometimes I think people have one goal in life, try to prove that everything isn't what it is.

    A .50 cal bullet falling through the roof of an RV, through an arm and into a wall of the RV might easily sound like an explosion, inside that RV especially to the person that just had her arm pierced by it. Just smack your hand on a wall of an RV and see what it sounds like.

    I doubt you'll get any more details that will support a conspiracy.
     

    JKTex

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    i see your point, but you can check, double check, and still not make your mark.

    Exactly. But when it still goes wrong, someone is still responsible and in some cases, it sucks. Again, if this guy had the integrity to come forward, I bet he's feeling really horrible if he thinks it really was him.
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    recklessly firing a weapon that ricocheted off of a berm, how in the world would that be a justifiable act of negligence....?
    that would be a truly an accident....

    Who said the round ricocheted off of a berm? Even if it did, you still have a failure to control the round that wend down range. There are certain responsibilities that come with firing lethal force weapons.

    There is a fine chance he plain fired over the berm. I have seen it happen before. It could be due to a UD such as a finger on the trigger when the rifle wasn't on target), poor sighting (as in looking over the sights at the target, unsighted-in optic, etc.), or other screwup. It happens. I find it amazing that people sometimes can't even hit a berm, sometimes a giant berm, but they still manage to miss. Of course, we have no idea what sort of berm the shooter was using, but the current information is that it was indeed his round that hit the woman. See below...

    cbs11tv.com - Man Says He May Have Shot, Injured Woman At TMS

    Man Says He May Have Shot, Injured Woman At TMS

    Carol Cavazos
    FORT WORTH (CBS 11 News) ― Fort Worth police have preliminary results from tests conducted on the gun believed to have fired the stray bullet that wounded a woman at the Texas Motor Speedway.

    It matches the .50 caliber bullet recovered at the scene.

    Tuesday, a 49-year-old Benbrook man came forward saying he's the one who may have fired the gun.

    The victim, 62-year-old Jill King, remained in the hospital Wednesday night.

    Her husband says the man who came forward called him.

    "He is remorseful. He is beside himself, and I told him how appreciative I was that he had that kind of character and would come forward," said Mel Moss, King's husband.

    Moss has launched a website telling his story and advocating a ban on sales of .50-caliber weapons to citizens: www.50caldanger.org
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    Nothing in that quote mentions a ricochet. That just states his intended target which was a mound of dirt. It says he fired AT the mound of dirt. It says nothing about him even hitting the mound of dirt, much less that there was a ricochet.
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    unless it was purposefully shot at an angle larger than 30 or so degrees off of the horizon, the only other way that the bullet would have gotten where it landed, is if it was AD'd or ricocheted or of the berm/dirt pile and went airborne...

    Actually, no. First, I believe you mean ND and not AD. An AD is an accidental discharge where the discharge is a result of a mechanical malfunction. An ND is a negligent discharge that is caused by the shooter firing - usually due to a finger being on the trigger when the rifle is not on target.

    Since the rifle is reported as a single shot rifle, this was not a discharge over the berm as a result of a discharge during recoil. Vulcan rifles are not equipped with iron sights so this would not appear to be the result of the shooter looking over his sights at the target while firing (hence would end up shooting high). It could have been an ND. It could have been that the shooter was sighting in a new scope and had no clue as to the POA/POI relationship and launched a round or rounds over the berm as a result. It could have been that the shooter simply missed the target and berm. It could be that the target/shooter relationship was such that rounds went over the berm because of the angle of fire. Heck, for all we know, the shooter was aiming at rocks or other natural object on the berm including something at or near the top of the berm. Maybe the shooter was attempting to shoulder fire the Vulcan (weighing in at about 30 lbs) and just screwed up.

    There are all sorts of ways for a shooter to miss a berm, especially if the berm is inadequate in size.

    As for the 30 degree angle, where did you get that?
     

    JKTex

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    Now on the news, they say, and showed the area, it was 2.5 miles north where he was shooting, and was shooting a range of 700 yards.

    It's pretty desolate in a lot of areas out there, but to be shooting a .50 cal at 700 yards into a home made berm? I doubt he was shooting down into a berm deep enough to account for 700 yards. They might have struck oil or gas going that deep.

    News chopper was out showing LEO'a all over the area trying to test the guys story now that they know it was his shot.

    It sounds like, so far, a few really bad decisions were made.
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    Mr. Jaramillo told police he was target shooting five miles away from Texas Motor Speedway between 10 and 11 a.m, said Lt. Paul Henderson, a Fort Worth police spokesman.

    If the dirt mound shown in the video is the backstop the guy was using, he was using a woefully inadequate backstop. It appears to be not much more than 8-10 feet tall.

    2.5 miles is now much closer than the 5 miles originally claimed. It certainly did not make sense that he could fire his rifle further than the capabilities of the cartridge.

    Now he is claiming it ricocheted off he berm. That still seems awfully far fetched. You have 700 yards of travel, then a ricochet that should have destabilized the round. It will be interesting to see if indeed there is evidence on the bullet that it ricocheted off the berm as claimed.
    cbs11tv.com - Investigation Into TMS Shooting Continues
     
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