Anyone Reload for 6.5 Jap?

[The Dave]

I was given a Type 38 Arisaka several years ago that is has good metal (non-matching bolt) and shoots minute of soda can at 50-75 paces, but the wood is either missing or beyond repair without major surgery. So I decided to make a sporter out of it and get some life and usability out of the ol’ girl and before you purest freak out, relax I’m not going to drill and tap or anything like that the irons work good enough for me, I did however ordered a Boyd’s walnut stock so I can save what is left of the original stock. 've used Boyd's stocks in the past and have liked the results each time.

Those are all the easy parts, the hard parts is getting affordable ammo. So I was thinking about reloading and turning some of the 10 pounds of wheel weights and 40+ pounds of roof flashing into slugs for a couple calibers including 6.5mm. Does anyone on here use cast lead for this caliber or is it mostly just jacketed rounds that ya’ll shoot?

I haven’t been able to look up load data that I’d trust because due to export restrictions I can’t get reloading cook books while deployed to the sand box so yeah, right now I am still in the research, planning and prepping stage of events.

If you do reload in this caliber what has your results been and what kind of loads have you been using?

 

[mantawolf]

Everything on Hornadys site is soft points or round nose. No lead. Here is their data you can lookup free.

Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading

 

[jpatm2]

You can find lots of great info on www.castboolits.gunloads.com

 

[The Dave]

Thanks thats makes stuff makes for good reading. So I take it not many people on here cast 6.5mm rounds?

and just for sake of conversation would those make good hunting rounds being cast lead or would it be better to stick to some sort of modern projo?

 

[DubiousDan]

The Type 38s I've seen have had rough pitted bores and I don't think cast bullets would do well in them. If you have one with a good bore you're very lucky. The Type 99s 7.7 Jap were chrome lined so there are many of those available with good bores. I think Norma still makes loaded rounds and empty brass for reloading the 6.5 but it's expensive. I have a friend that hunts deer with a Type 38 and 140gr bullets. They do the job well.

Here's a thread on the Cast Bullet Forum. There may be others.

6.5 Japanese bullet accuracy issues.....anybody out there load for them?

 

[DubiousDan]

Thanks thats makes stuff makes for good reading. So I take it not many people on here cast 6.5mm rounds?

and just for sake of conversation would those make good hunting rounds being cast lead or would it be better to stick to some sort of modern projo?

It would depend on how accurate they are out or your rifle.

 

[The Dave]

good point, so for instructional purposes only we will say that "all things being equal" which would be better.

My fear is that the terminal ballistics even with good shot placement wouldnt be as humane as useing a modern porjectial

 

[Moonpie]

Never loaded the 6.5 Jap but did do the 6.5 Swede.
FWIW, use a bullet the same length as the original gov't round. The barrel is rifled for a bullet that length.
Use hard alloyed cast lead bullets. Do NOT use pure lead.
Gas check the bullets if you're going to push them over about 1200fps. Keep them slow and leading will not be an issue.
Brass is available but pricey.
Cast bullet pressure loads are creampuff and your brass should last many firings. You will want to anneal after 3-4 firings.
If the bore is pitted you'll need to stay with jacketed bullets. Cast lead bullets and pitted bores = bad juju.
There's a boatload of good quality jacketed bullets out there. Again, use a bullet that matches the original military bullet for best results.

 

[The Dave]

I have about 20 pieces of brass ready for reloading and 20 more that I haven't fired yet. The lead I have at home is like I said a mix of wheel weights and roofing flashing so would that be too good or should I add something to make it a harder. I have reloaded before (some not much) but never cast my own. So sorry if I am asking a lot of "dumb questions" but the last thing I want to do is have something go wrong.

The bore is in very good shape which really surprised me considering how bad the outside is and how the bore looked before I cleaned it. I figured I'd have to gas check the slugs just because of the velocity.

I hadn't though of checking the length of the standard projectile I do however know that it is a 139 grain bullet. but wouldn't the rate of twist be based in a standard velocity? With a lower velocity I'd need greater bearing (ogive) surface to properly stabilize the round. Or do I have that backwards and need less ogive with lower velocity?

I've read about people using 6.5 Swede resizing dies to only partly resize the case neck to make them last longer due to the chambers being over cut full length resizing causes too much strain on the case shorting it life.

This is a reason I like this forum I can ask question and get advise unlike some other where you ask a question and get blasted for not knowing stuff already.


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[Moonpie]

Straight wheelweight metal is good to use. If you add in the pure lead flashing it will soften the alloy. You want it hard.
You should not use pure soft lead with ANY smokeless powder loads.
You don't need gas checks if your loads are down around 1000-1200 fps. Any faster and you will need them to prevent leading in the bore.

Yes, the bullet and rifling is designed around a certain velocity.
You'll need to tinker here and see which powder charge, bullet length/weight, and velocity work best in your rifle.

Necksizing the case does increase case life. FWIW, buy a correct set of dies.
At creampuff cast lead power levels its really a non-issue. You should not even have to full length re-size. You may have to on initial make-up as the cases could be slightly oversize. Usually new brass is good to go. Chamber them and see if they fit.
If you load up full power jacketed bullet loads you'll have case stretching. Then you'll need to trim the cases after firing. This is normal with new brass.
ALWAYS measure your cases after neck/full-length resize.

Cast bullets can shoot amazingly well. Plus they are a joy to shoot.

Oh, BTW...................

 

[The Dave]

Straight wheelweight metal is good to use. If you add in the pure lead flashing it will soften the alloy. You want it hard.
You should not use pure soft lead with ANY smokeless powder loads.
You don't need gas checks if your loads are down around 1000-1200 fps. Any faster and you will need them to prevent leading in the bore.

Yes, the bullet and rifling is designed around a certain velocity.
You'll need to tinker here and see which powder charge, bullet length/weight, and velocity work best in your rifle.

Necksizing the case does increase case life. FWIW, buy a correct set of dies.
At creampuff cast lead power levels its really a non-issue. You should not even have to full length re-size. You may have to on initial make-up as the cases could be slightly oversize. Usually new brass is good to go. Chamber them and see if they fit.
If you load up full power jacketed bullet loads you'll have case stretching. Then you'll need to trim the cases after firing. This is normal with new brass.
ALWAYS measure your cases after neck/full-length resize.

Cast bullets can shoot amazingly well. Plus they are a joy to shoot.

Oh, BTW...................

The cases I have right now are formed off .220 swift brass (I think) but are already fire formed to my chamber. I bought them off gunbroker from "Mr. Nambu" I knew it was a gamble buying someone else's reloads but after reading reviews online and trading emails with him I went ahead and ordered 40 rounds for this rifle and 40 for my type 99 rifle. So far all have worked very well and I have seen no signs of high pressure or anything else.

I would love to post a picture of my rifle. But it is in Texas and I am in Afghanistan, so like I said in the beginning right now I am in the research and ask phase. I still need to pick up a mold and some dies, I know a couple places where I can get them when I get back to that side if the world so I'll wait until I can look at them and inspect them in person before I buy. I have gotten burned with the quality of things bought online before so now when possible I prefer to handle and inspect things before I buy (finding 6.5 Jap in person for under $35+ a box is rare)

I'll see if I can find a older picture of it and post it up.


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[Moonpie]

I'm looking at my copy of The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions by Donnelly.
He states the 6.5x50mm Arisaka can be formed from.270 Winchester brass. Swage base down to .447"diameter. Then size in 6.5 Jap die. Trim to length. Inside neck ream. Then full length resize. Chamfer.
I thought the 6.5Jap was a rimmed case? I guess he is correct but you probably would want to anneal the .270 case well before swaging.
All the case dimensions are there if you want them.
Only load data is 33.0gr of IMR 4895 with 140gr Spire bullet.
I'm positive that is a jacketed bullet full power load.
The book shows 6.5 Carcano brass made from .220Swift. Also can be made from .270Win.

Hornady 3rd edition has some load data for jacketed bullets.
They list data for 100gr, 129gr, 140gr, 160gr bullets.
Let me know if you want them.

Looks like Graf&sons has PRVI brass. Graf & Sons - PRVI PARTIZAN BRASS 6.5x50 JAP (6.5x51R) UNPRM 100/BAG

http://www.lohmanarms.com/category_s/2839.htm

Midsouth shows loaded Norma ammo in stock. Norma is very very good ammo. I'd go with this to get up and running FWIW. 6.5 Japanese SP 156 Grain American PH 20 Rounds by NORMA

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...panese-arisaka-156-grain-soft-point-box-of-20

 

[jpatm2]

Check out these guys for molds... .264 -6.5mm, NOE Bullet Moulds
I have some from him and they are magnificent.

 

[The Dave]

Those are sweet looking. Ok so a complete NOOB question. What is the advantage of these molds over say a LEE mold or another less expensive mold?


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[jpatm2]

The difference is something of personal preference. I chose to get some of his molds due to the fact that while I was on CastBoolits, you saw the development process from idea to refinement to final product. I haven't seen any complaints of his products.

I do not have and bad experiences with Lee molds. It would come down to what you want and what material you want it made out of. You have aluminum, steel and brass to choose from. Lee uses aluminum, NOE uses aluminum and sometimes brass, MiHec (also on the CastBoolits website) uses brass, RCBS uses steel. Like I said earlier, it is a matter of personal preference.

 

[DubiousDan]

Swage base down to .447"diameter

With what? I've tried with 6.5 sizing die and broke the die.

 

[Moonpie]

A steel mould casts easier than an aluminum.
The steel gets up to temp and maintains heat better.
The down side is mould care. You must keep steel moulds clean and oiled or you'll get rust.

 

[sabot_round]

35 REM is probably the easiest brass that you can use to convert to 6.5 JAP, and it's inexpensive. First run it thru a .308 die, and then thru a 6.5 JAP die. Make sure you lube inside the case mouth and the outside body thoroughly during both steps, especially during the 6.5 die run or bad things are gonna happen (i.e. stuck brass in die, etc). Don't ask me how I know!!

After that, anneal them, then you can form the brass to your chamber using the cheapest jacketed bullets that you can find and the lowest amount of powder possible, and you will have fine brass that will last for a while.

As a side note, I've heard that .308 can be used but I haven't had the chance to experiment with it since I got back from Asscrackistan.

SR

 

[The Dave]

35 REM is probably the easiest brass that you can use to convert to 6.5 JAP, and it's inexpensive. First run it thru a .308 die, and then thru a 6.5 JAP die. Make sure you lube inside the case mouth and the outside body thoroughly during both steps, especially during the 6.5 die run or bad things are gonna happen (i.e. stuck brass in die, etc). Don't ask me how I know!!

After that, anneal them, then you can form the brass to your chamber using the cheapest jacketed bullets that you can find and the lowest amount of powder possible, and you will have fine brass that will last for a while.

As a side note, I've heard that .308 can be used but I haven't had the chance to experiment with it since I got back from Asscrackistan.

SR

I'm still in asscrackistan but only got a few more weeks until I am outta here. I've read about .308 brass being used but information is little and kinda sketchy at best. I am really excited about this project.

I was thinking about last night and I think the best place to do this is if I get a storage locker out in town since my parent command would flip out if I was reloading ammo in my barracks room (on a side note reloading ammo in the parking lot or smoke pit is actually legal but in my "living quarters" is not. Way to think that one through) even as an E5 with 9+ years and no disciplinary record, we are still not trusted to even have a sling shot or knife over 3" in my room much less a WWII era bolt action rifle and reloading equipment... But I digress.

Would the heat from being kept in a storage garage cause any kind of negative effects on the gun powder? It gets pretty hot in Yuma Az. where I'm stationed at.


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[sabot_round]

I'm still in asscrackistan but only got a few more weeks until I am outta here. I've read about .308 brass being used but information is little and kinda sketchy at best. I am really excited about this project.

I was thinking about last night and I think the best place to do this is if I get a storage locker out in town since my parent command would flip out if I was reloading ammo in my barracks room (on a side note reloading ammo in the parking lot or smoke pit is actually legal but in my "living quarters" is not. Way to think that one through) even as an E5 with 9+ years and no disciplinary record, we are still not trusted to even have a sling shot or knife over 3" in my room much less a WWII era bolt action rifle and reloading equipment... But I digress.

Would the heat from being kept in a storage garage cause any kind of negative effects on the gun powder? It gets pretty hot in Yuma Az. where I'm stationed at.


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Perhaps, given the fact that gunpowder and ammo are supposed to be kept in a cool/dry place (hence the reason we have underground bunkers), if I was you, I would either invest in a climate controlled bin, or get my own place.

ETA: If you want to experiment with .308, have at it!! If I was you, I would wait for some more experienced folks to try it, and let them chime in.

SR