Army to switch to "green" bullets

[Mexican_Hippie]

More environmentally friendly. Still unfriendly to enemies.

Getting the lead out, literally: US Army plans switch to 'green' bullets | The Daily Caller

 

[Shorts]

“The EPR replaces the lead slug with a copper slug,”

​

Well that ought to be so very cost effective. Not! Expensive as hell is more like it. As if the price of copper wasn't high enough already and new construction crime isn't a problem. Let's just forget sequestration and the whole little budget problem too.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Will that do anything to expansion?

 

[45tex]

Our environmental military is going to get us invaded. And it will be a short war and a long occupation.

 

[mikeofcontex]

I forget... where does lead come from? Oh yeah... the ground... so how did it become such a hazard to put it back in the ground? I guess it's kinda' like exhaling CO2... healthy people do that but it makes the oceans rise.

 

[45tex]

They don't much expand, they maintain integrity and tumble. Military bullets are not really supposed to kill. We still fight from a 1930's mindset.

 

[txinvestigator]

from the article

Green bullets, like the M855A1, have been touted for their enhanced performance standards, such as better hard-target penetration, more consistent performance against soft targets and significantly increased distances of these effects.


In 2010, the Army switched to the greener 5.56 mm M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round.

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“The EPR replaces the lead slug with a copper slug,” said Lt. Col. Phil Clark, product manager for small caliber ammunition in the Program Executive Officer Ammunition.

I missed the memo; why are we opposed to this?

 

[txinvestigator]

I forget... where does lead come from? Oh yeah... the ground... so how did it become such a hazard to put it back in the ground? I guess it's kinda' like exhaling CO2... healthy people do that but it makes the oceans rise.

Lead is a highly toxic material. It IS hazardous to put back in the ground.

People who work at gun ranges wear respirators and Personal Protective Equipment when working around the lead.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

They don't much expand, they maintain integrity and tumble. Military bullets are not really supposed to kill. We still fight from a 1930's mindset.

I had forgotten about this, I did not think they would expand as well though.

 

[breakingcontact]

Got to admit this concerns me. Figure if the police and the military go all copper or brass, how long until our lead bullets are outlawed?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

It's also one way to make them more expensive for the average Joe to buy.
One way to cut down on ammo purchases.

 

[Shorts]

from the article

I missed the memo; why are we opposed to this?

Increased cost of ammunition for no improvement in effectiveness.


Base Metals Investment, Prices and Stocks - InvestmentMine
(I just picked a tool/site, don't know which if any is a "gold standard". Post it if you have it)
Lead is under $1/lb while copper is over $3/lb.

Officials also expect a similar “greening” to occur with the 7.62 mm version. However, reports from after the M855A1 ammo came out cast some doubts on green bullet performance.

Fox News reported that Army officials conceded that the M855A1 “has not been providing the ‘stopping power’ the user would like at engagement ranges less than 150 yards” in a 2005 briefing.

Ballistic experts also noted that the green M855A1 would not be substantially more deadly than its lead predecessor.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Not sure how much this would impact lead prices. Depends on the volume compared to the overall market I guess.

This could be good news to those who mold their own ammo and already have plenty of brass.

 

[Younggun]

Could have sworn the article said that the rounds seemed to be LESS effective inside 150 yrds.

 

[breakingcontact]

Could have sworn the article said that the rounds seemed to be LESS effective inside 150 yrds.

Yep. The new touchy feeling Army. I'm a bit more of an enviro than most gun guys but anything that's going to make a soldier less lethal on the battlefield should be investigated by Congress.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

from the article

I missed the memo; why are we opposed to this?

I'm not sure that I am opposed to it. I just found it interesting.

 

[Younggun]

I just had a WTF moment.

Maybe I'm mistaken but the rounds are replacing the M855 rounds, correct?

Things may have changed since I was in but as I recall 99% of the ammo we fired at the range was M193. The M855 was generally reserved for shooting people as I expect will be the same with the M855A1 rounds.

So we will continue to blast the same amount of lead in to American soil while spending more money to make sure we don't pollute craplakistan all the while making the rounds LESS effective when the enemy is close.

Am I getting this right?

 

[breakingcontact]

I think we shot green tip (w tracers) with the M249 and regular ball with the M16A2/M4.

 

[Texas42]

The M855A1 has more penetration, with the same terminal ballistics as M855. Personally, IMO M855 kinda sucks.

I'll Take M193, as my targets probably won't be wearing armor.

 

[M. Sage]

Why are people just now writing articles about this? The switch is already well under way, which is why "green tip" was suddenly everywhere about a year and a half ago. This goes back before that, though.

Evolution of the M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round | Article | The United States Army

Could have sworn the article said that the rounds seemed to be LESS effective inside 150 yrds.

No, they were saying the Army has admitted that the M855 (still has lead) was not terribly impressive inside 150 yards. Not surprising; the reason we adopted it is because our European NATO allies who had actually signed the Hague Conventions (there is zero reason for US forces NOT to be using expanding bullets) saw M193's consistent fragmentation in Vietnam and had visions of war crimes trials in their future if they adopted it.