Assisted suicide expands...

[TipBledsoe]

This is quite a thought-provoking topic that has caused me to question where I stand, yet tends to be strengthening my beliefs.

One must first examine their beliefs about plain ole suicide ahead of this assisted suicide business, and let's face it head on - suicide is self-murder. The person who commits suicide is murdering themself. So isn't a person who assists someone to commit suicide considered, as a minimum, as an accessory to murder? I think a case study would yield a strong yes.

Worldwide, even the most underdeveloped societies have laws against murder. The hypocrisy is quite insane. North Americans consider ourselves and our societies to be very good and proper. So how can assisted suicide be condoned? As an even greater example of hypocrisy, how can abortion be condoned?

I believe that life is sacred. We ourselves do not even possess the authority to end our own life. Giving someone else the authority to end our life for us (assisted suicide) is no different than self-murder. I shudder to think about the potential eternal consequences.

And no, unplugging a life-support system for someone who is brain-dead has nothing to do with murder. Hopefully that someone is an organ donor and gives someone else more life.

 

[Vaquero]

Hospice, in the most general term, is the same thing.
Why argue over something that's already here and legal?

 

[mongoose]

Hospice, in the most general term, is the same thing.
Why argue over something that's already here and legal?

Assisted suicide and hospice are not even remotely the same.

 

[Vaquero]

Assisted suicide and hospice are not even remotely the same.

In some instances, they're exactly the same.
My dad chose hospice over a life on a ventilator.
My wife has been a volunteer for a hospice organization for years.

I've said all I'm going to say about it.

You're more than welcome to speak your mind.

 

[Eli]

TL;DR

I hate to go all 'Godwins' on this topic, but most people are unaware what became the Holocaust started with Germany euthanizing anybody deemed 'unworthy of life' by bureaucrats.
There are European countries today that have almost nobody with Down Syndrome - and NO children with Down Syndrome - due to nearly mandatory in-the-womb DNA testing and nearly compulsory abortions if any defect is found.

Eli

 

[Havok1]

This is quite a thought-provoking topic that has caused me to question where I stand, yet tends to be strengthening my beliefs.

One must first examine their beliefs about plain ole suicide ahead of this assisted suicide business, and let's face it head on - suicide is self-murder. The person who commits suicide is murdering themself. So isn't a person who assists someone to commit suicide considered, as a minimum, as an accessory to murder? I think a case study would yield a strong yes.

Worldwide, even the most underdeveloped societies have laws against murder. The hypocrisy is quite insane. North Americans consider ourselves and our societies to be very good and proper. So how can assisted suicide be condoned? As an even greater example of hypocrisy, how can abortion be condoned?

I believe that life is sacred. We ourselves do not even possess the authority to end our own life. Giving someone else the authority to end our life for us (assisted suicide) is no different than self-murder. I shudder to think about the potential eternal consequences.

And no, unplugging a life-support system for someone who is brain-dead has nothing to do with murder. Hopefully that someone is an organ donor and gives someone else more life.

Thats easy! Just look at who is having the most abortions and who is supporting their decision to have them. although the answer may be very cruel, it’s easy to see the lefts real motivations for supporting this.

 

[1911'S 4 Me]

Hospice ends in death.
Usually within two weeks the patient is dead due to the constant
morphine doses.
Abortion is murder.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Assisted suicide and hospice are not even remotely the same.

After 3-4-5 doses of morphine what's the difference?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Yes, dying a slow, painful death, would be much better.

 

[Havok1]

<>

We must decide for the dog.

We cannot presume to decide for another Human.

Just not the same.

But make sure your wishes are known to your Family and are in your Will & ‘’Living Will’’.

Most of the problems I’ve seen were caused by the Families, not the Patient.

<>

Weren’t you a doctor? How many people each day does medical staff already make life and death decisions for, and there is no stigma surrounding it because there is no bad name? In the case of this thread, nobody is actually asking anyone to make a decision FOR another person.

 

[leVieux]

Weren’t you a doctor? How many people each day does medical staff already make life and death decisions for, and there is no stigma surrounding it because there is no bad name? In the case of this thread, nobody is actually asking anyone to make a decision FOR another person.

<>

Read the posts; that is where this is going.

And, no; at least for now, the ultimate authority for a person’s health care is that individual person.

No ‘’Med Staff’’ in any civilized area that I’m aware of can make a decision to end anyone’s life.

Of course there are abortions, but the patient is the one who decides that.

<>

 

[paknheat]

Lil’ Castro Trudeau’s MAID staff in action.
At least he went with the real experts.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[benenglish]

In the case of this thread, nobody is actually asking anyone to make a decision FOR another person.

Read the posts; that is where this is going.

And, no; at least for now, the ultimate authority for a person’s health care is that individual person.

What caught my attention and prompted me to start this topic was the way Canada is more broadly pushing MAID as a treatment. It's being offered to people it shouldn't. Along with that comes the implicit endorsement of the person making the offer. People are being rushed to judgement as a way to instantly cure their pain, their condition. See above about a woman who was dead in less than 24 hours. See above about the push to allow teenagers to make this decision under the pressure of medical staff.

And if you went off on the deep end and tracked down other videos by Kelsie Sheren, you'll see that much of the reason the medical bureaucracy in Canada is pushing people toward choosing MAID is actually money, i.e. the national health care system saves sometime literally millions of dollars if they can convince an old person to off themselves instead of fighting their disease(s).

External influences, criteria beyond "The patient or their medical POA must give their fully informed consent" are coming into play. As a result, it seems that more people are allowing themselves to die than should happen.

So, yeah, both your statements are true. Nobody is making the decision for anyone (except via a medical POA or whatever it may be called in whatever jurisdiction the patient is in) right now...on paper. But when your doctor pushes you toward suicide, well, there are enough people close enough to that cliff already that they'll go over because of that push. Leaving suicide off the list of potential treatments will result, I believe, in many of those folks continuing to live and possibly returning to a productive life. But we'll never know for certain, will we?

I am floored by the way Canada is now offering suicide as a cure for depression. I thought the ethical treatment of depression included trying to make sure people don't kill themselves.

Not in Canada. Legalized assisted suicide expands and some people want it to expand far further than I think is proper. So I invited discussion. Thanks to everybody for participating.

Now, back to the regular flow of the thread.

 

[benenglish]

Hospice ends in death.

It's supposed to. Yet I've known people to continue to exist in misery for many months in "hospice at home."

Until recently, I didn't even know that existed.

 

[benenglish]

There are European countries today that have almost nobody with Down Syndrome - and NO children with Down Syndrome - due to nearly mandatory in-the-womb DNA testing and nearly compulsory abortions if any defect is found.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[toddnjoyce]

What caught my attention and prompted me to start this topic was the way Canada is more broadly pushing MAID as a treatment. …

Treatment? No. Decision? Sure. That’s the details I spoke of earlier and why .gov needs to not be involved.

It's supposed to. Yet I've known people to continue to exist in misery for many months in "hospice at home."

Until recently, I didn't even know that existed.

Jimmy Carter’s been doing hospice at home for over a year now. That ain’t hospice in my book. When Mom decided hospice was her decision, it was because she decided eating and drinking wasn’t worth the quality of life she was being given anymore.

She chewed on ice for a few days to make it to past her 84th birthday because she’s stubborn like that, then went to be with the lord on the sixth day after her birthday and ten days after having moved into hospice.

 

[Havok1]

<>

Read the posts; that is where this is going.

And, no; at least for now, the ultimate authority for a person’s health care is that individual person.

No ‘’Med Staff’’ in any civilized area that I’m aware of can make a decision to end anyone’s life.

Of course there are abortions, but the patient is the one who decides that.

<>

You mean like our own?

Here in the US, we are perfectly fine with allowing medical staff to decline various treatments that are necessary for someone to survive.

We are perfectly fine with allowing patients to refuse treatment that they can not survive without.

We are perfectly fine with someone having a DNR, but we are debating if someone who is resuscitated regardless of their unknown wishes should be able to make the same decisions after the fact.

What’s interesting about the abortion thing is that the only person who does not have any say in the matter is the person whose life is being ended. So doctors are in fact ending another life without that persons consent.

And lastly, as I already pointed out, the very topic of this thread is legal in many US states. Although we can debate how civilized the US is these days, I’m not familiar with anywhere that I would consider more civilized than the US.

 

[Havok1]

What caught my attention and prompted me to start this topic was the way Canada is more broadly pushing MAID as a treatment. It's being offered to people it shouldn't. Along with that comes the implicit endorsement of the person making the offer. People are being rushed to judgement as a way to instantly cure their pain, their condition. See above about a woman who was dead in less than 24 hours. See above about the push to allow teenagers to make this decision under the pressure of medical staff.

And if you went off on the deep end and tracked down other videos by Kelsie Sheren, you'll see that much of the reason the medical bureaucracy in Canada is pushing people toward choosing MAID is actually money, i.e. the national health care system saves sometime literally millions of dollars if they can convince an old person to off themselves instead of fighting their disease(s).

External influences, criteria beyond "The patient or their medical POA must give their fully informed consent" are coming into play. As a result, it seems that more people are allowing themselves to die than should happen.

So, yeah, both your statements are true. Nobody is making the decision for anyone (except via a medical POA or whatever it may be called in whatever jurisdiction the patient is in) right now...on paper. But when your doctor pushes you toward suicide, well, there are enough people close enough to that cliff already that they'll go over because of that push. Leaving suicide off the list of potential treatments will result, I believe, in many of those folks continuing to live and possibly returning to a productive life. But we'll never know for certain, will we?

I am floored by the way Canada is now offering suicide as a cure for depression. I thought the ethical treatment of depression included trying to make sure people don't kill themselves.

Not in Canada. Legalized assisted suicide expands and some people want it to expand far further than I think is proper. So I invited discussion. Thanks to everybody for participating.

Now, back to the regular flow of the thread.

Some of the things that you have mentioned about canadas use for this are definitely concerning. Especially when it involves minors.

 

[Cool 'Horn Luke]

She chewed on ice for a few days to make it to past her 84th birthday because she’s stubborn like that, then went to be with the lord on the sixth day after her birthday and ten days after having moved into hospice.

No longer in pain, no longer in fear. Same for my dad, RWR 1933-2003, I miss you every day.

 

[leVieux]

<>

IIRC, commie ‘’revolutions’’ are commonly followed by purges.

Perhaps WEF & UN are trying to put their planned purging of US into ‘’humanitarian’’ terms to make it more acceptable to our already deluded Young.

<>