Attn Bexar Co Police

[breakingcontact]

SAPD...no interest in crime because it doesn't profit the SAPD. Tickets, now...lots and lots of tickets...

Had a gun stolen a few years back. SAPD picked up an illegal two days later strutting down Riverwalk (can't bother the tourists, don'tcha know) with my pistol. They held him for thirty days and on his release were going to give him "his" pistol back when one of SAPD's finest thought to RUN THE SERIAL NUMBER. So they kept the gun and told the guy to come back in two weeks for a hearing on posession of a stolen gun.

Good plan. Released an illegal and told him to "come back later."

Four years later, they still won't release my gun because it is...evidence...on a illegal they released into the wild. The one lone detective I've been chatting with is incandescent with rage. Oh, but now he works patrol part time because...tickets make money...

Having played First Shirt in these parts and having actually dealt with victims (although military so they don't count in SA), the number of crimes that SAPD doesn't even bother rolling out for...drive-by shootings, break-ins, theft from habitation, theft from vehicles, vehicle accidents...astounded me. Information over the phone...but only on weekdays...and a mailed form "for insurance" eventually...

But gods damned Johnny on the fucking spot with the radar gun.

Not that I'm bitter

I dont see why people deny that this is just an economic reality. Thats a curious point. What percent of a departments budget is recouped through tickets and fines?

 

[majormadmax]

I dont see why people deny that this is just an economic reality. Thats a curious point. What percent of a departments budget is recouped through tickets and fines?

It's not, considering the number of speeders in this town and comparing it to the number of traffic citations written, that alone is proof that the SAPD is not on a ticket-writing campaign. If anything, there is so much potential lost revenue in this one area of law enforcement it is almost amazing that there isn't greater traffic enforcement going on! For everyone one complaining about how many tickets there are being written, there is an equal number of citizens complaining that not enough are being written!

The problem lies with the number of officers on the force in the first place. There is only a tad over 2000 officers for a city of 1,328,984 (as of July 2007, so it has to be higher now), That's one officer for every 661 citizens and well below the recommended number of officers for a city of this size (by about 1329 officers, by my math). The International Association of Police Chiefs recommends a ratio of 2.5 officers for every 1000 people in cities with over 250,000 residents (Source). So S.A. is about one police officer shy of that (1.5 per 1000).

The bigger problem is that this affects not only traffic enforcement and property crimes, but emergencies as well. These figures are a few years old, but according to SAPD's web site, the average response time for a 911 call was 5.36 min. For regular calls, it is 18.49 min. While that's good justification for owning more firearms ("when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!") it also explains why such lower priority issues such as property crimes cannot have as many resources allocated to them as needed.

Why don't they just hire more officers, you ask? It's not that easy. The SAPD has been working hard to recruit more, and is running academy classes year-round (4 cadet classes this year alone); but given the attrition rate of officers through retirement, movements, etc. the new acquisitions are not keeping up the pace. And while some may think it would be easier to just recruit officers from other departments, the SAPD doesn't do lateral transfers; meaning that any officer joining the force has (even from other departments) have to complete the SAPD 33-week long academy.

So once you take all that into consideration, the solution isn't as easy as some might expect. Yes, it sucks that property crimes, something that is a big problem in this city, is such a low priority but considering the more violent issues the police in San Antonio have to deal with on a regular basis at least you can understand why that is the case.

Cheers! M2

 

[wakal]

When it takes two hours for a officer to respond to a drive by shooting...and then the fat ass doesn't even get out of the car to take statements...yeah, violent crime response is more important...than writing tickets.



Given 2,000 officers...multiple shifts...and count the cars sitting by the side of the road with gumball machines flashing toting up another "contribution" to the city (and the court system, can't forget the black robed tyrants and their vig)...

 

[ChrisS]

traffic stop--a car without a license plate--and ended up in the capture of Oklahoma City bombing suspect Timothy J. McVeigh.

Serial killers Ted Bundy and Randy Kraft were caught during traffic stops.

Richard Ramirez--the man later convicted of being the Night Stalker

Traffic Stops--Tickets to Surprises - Los Angeles Times

it ain't all about the money. this doesn't even begin to account for the drunks that did not kill someone because they were stopped for a minor traffic infraction. Theft sucks. But don't shit talk when they are doing good.

 

[wakal]

Heh...go ahead and lick the jackboots all you want.

As long as the department makes money off speeding tickets, the "important" thing will always be...writing more speeding tickets.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

traffic stop--a car without a license plate--and ended up in the capture of Oklahoma City bombing suspect Timothy J. McVeigh.

Serial killers Ted Bundy and Randy Kraft were caught during traffic stops.

Richard Ramirez--the man later convicted of being the Night Stalker

Traffic Stops--Tickets to Surprises - Los Angeles Times

it ain't all about the money. this doesn't even begin to account for the drunks that did not kill someone because they were stopped for a minor traffic infraction. Theft sucks. But don't shit talk when they are doing good.

So we're relying on dumb luck rather than investigations to catch serious criminals.

Awesome point.

 

[Jon Payne]

I dont see why people deny that this is just an economic reality. Thats a curious point. What percent of a departments budget is recouped through tickets and fines?

None, revenue received from citations are divided between the courts, the state, and the city's general fund.

 

[Jon Payne]

So we're relying on dumb luck rather than investigations to catch serious criminals.

Awesome point.

Dumb luck and making contacts are two different things, but each will see and feel what they want.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I doubt local PDs fund much from tickets. It's more to make an occasional example to slow people down or make sure they're not blowing stop signs.

I simply see them all as fishing trips for something bigger. We make up all these ridiculous traffic laws so the 4th amendment can be circumvented. Sometimes were lucky and catch a bad guy, but usually it just keeps grandma from speeding for a few years.

 

[wakal]

I doubt local PDs fund much from tickets.

And you would be wrong.

Talking directly with various Chiefs of their respective PD...they keep half. Their associated bosses...the City Managers...depend on that half to fully fund the department. Any drop in "revenue stream" is noticed and "corrections" demanded.

Fixing the problem is simple...no department gets to keep a dime of any ticket. And it will never happen as long as long as it remains directly profitable.

 

[gcarrillo004]

So we're relying on dumb luck rather than investigations to catch serious criminals.

Awesome point.

BAM! you nailed it. anyway everyone knows Timothy McVeigh was a pawn in that whole mess.

 

[Jon Payne]

And you would be wrong.

Talking directly with various Chiefs of their respective PD...they keep half. Their associated bosses...the City Managers...depend on that half to fully fund the department. Any drop in "revenue stream" is noticed and "corrections" demanded.

Fixing the problem is simple...no department gets to keep a dime of any ticket. And it will never happen as long as long as it remains directly profitable.[/QUOTE


Please name the Chiefs and the Departments you're referring to. Having been a municipal officer I have seen what goes to the state, the court, and the individual city's general fund.

 

[Jon Payne]

If I stopped a vehicle for a traffic violation and discovered stolen property ( stolen from your residence ) I'm sure you prefer I let them go. It wasn't good police work, it was just dumb luck.

All types of crimes are discovered and or solved from police contacts. One would think one of the most common reason for a contact is a traffic violation, but I don't have stats to prove that.

BTW, just because a legal stop is made doesn't mean the bad guy just fesses up. Reasonable suspicion and probable cause still have to be developed. It's not like stubbing your toe on a pot of gold.

No one likes being stopped by the police. I've been stopped and I've been cited; it's not fun. I rarely work traffic anymore, but I can tell you where we have worked traffic and we're seen/highly visible traffic crashes are reduced. Having lost a child to a speeding driver (90+ in a 35 MPH Zone) No one will likely convince me traffic enforcement doesn't save lives. Does the state make money? Yes they do. Does the court make money? Why yes, yes they do. Did I ever get a new toaster, steak dinner, or VCR? Nope, not even once.

 

[wakal]

What departments? Various in Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Florida, Minnesota...too many to count. Just because little cop on the street doesn't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening allthefuckover.

Enforce the laws against people driving in an unsafe fashion...sure. Write tickets because Big Boy Says So? Bullshit.

Take bike riders side by side. Easy ticket; classified as unsafe. Unless they are wearing their jackboots...in which case...no problem...

Fix traffic quick...execute drunk drivers. Second fix: No insurance, car goes straight to the damn crusher.

 

[Jon Payne]

What departments? Various in Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Florida, Minnesota...too many to count. Just because little cop on the street doesn't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening allthefuckover.

Enforce the laws against people driving in an unsafe fashion...sure. Write tickets because Big Boy Says So? Bullshit.

Take bike riders side by side. Easy ticket; classified as unsafe. Unless they are wearing their jackboots...in which case...no problem...

Fix traffic quick...execute drunk drivers. Second fix: No insurance, car goes straight to the damn crusher.

Sorry wakal, I asked for sources. I'd like to verify your story. Thanks for the insult calling me "just a little cop on the street". I've had no problem avoiding calling you a liar and saying your full of hyperbole.

 

[Jon Payne]

wakal,

I'm only asking for a Texas source. I don't care what other states do. Just one Texas Chief and Texas PD is all I'm asking for.

 

[ChrisS]

So we're relying on dumb luck rather than investigations to catch serious criminals.

Awesome point.

no, it is just one of the tools. The point is, the officer is not pulling you over hopeing to cut you a ticket and get some money for the city. He is hopeing to stop a jackass from killing someone by driving drunk or like an ass. Every now and then, someone really good gets grabbed before they can blow up/murder someone else. Don't talk shit because you can't do the right thing.

 

[ChrisS]

Also, so what if they make money. Why should the honest people pay for the enforcement. You drive like an ass, and don't follow the rules and put honest people in danger, then you pay for the person that has to make you drive responsibly. Grow up, and be a civil member of society.

 

[Jon Payne]

Sec. 542.402. DISPOSITION OF FINES.

Wakal,

Name One Texas Police Chief & Municipal Dept that you talked to personally. You know one that told you they get half? Surely you can provide ONE out of the many you spoke with? The reason I ask is because your statement contradicts the above provided link. But what the hell do I know? I'm just a little cop on the street.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

no, it is just one of the tools. The point is, the officer is not pulling you over hopeing to cut you a ticket and get some money for the city. He is hopeing to stop a jackass from killing someone by driving drunk or like an ass. Every now and then, someone really good gets grabbed before they can blow up/murder someone else. Don't talk shit because you can't do the right thing.

A) I wasn't "talking shit". I'm much more sophisticated - I express sarcasm.
B) I can't do the right thing? You don't know anything about me.
C) You need to back up, remove chip from shoulder, and try again when speaking to people.