Best cost effective 22LR for Range Training?

[Tank]

OP: If this is known to you, please forgive me, I have no intention of patronizing. Also, sorry for the thread hijack.

I spend a LOT of time behind my .22LR bolt, semi-auto rifle, and pistols. I find them invaluable training tools for technique AND as you say, they are less expensive to shoot (unless you end up needing to run Tenex - grin). The obvious difference is recoil or lack thereof. This will permit you to train muscle memory for hold, breathing, natural POA, and TRIGGER PRESS. For me, the rimfire training is primarily to reinforce trigger technique without having to think about recoil management which DOES make you shoot differently. This may be obvious, but IF you use a .22LR to train trigger technique, it will be MUCH less effective if the trigger(s) on your centerfire weapon(s) are very different to what you are practicing with.

Isolate what you are training from as much else as possible. If you need to work on natural POA, then take as many other variables out of the training as you can (recoil, wind, trigger, ammo, etc.). Same for training trigger technique or wind calling, etc. I.E., if you are training trigger technique, doing so on days with variable, quartering winds, with a bipod, on a wooden bench, with 6 different kinds of ammo (all silly, but as examples of variables), you will be managing so many "other" things that you'll get much less from your trigger training. Again, this may be obvious, but for example, if you are working on trigger, use ONE type of ammo, shoot SHORT range, put your rifle on a good bag or rest, use a solid rear bag or rest, train on calm days, etc.

This is not always really practical, but in building physical/mental skills, training technique is important. You will also obviously want to train ALL of the variables in play EVENTUALLY. I've found that doing the more meticulous training up front yields better and quicker progress than trying to get it all "right" at the same time.

Again, please forgive me if this is all already known to you. Hope some of it helps.

Hijack away brother, I hold very little experience in long rifles but am trainable. Appreciate this!

 

[toddnjoyce]

Hoo boy. Several things going on here.

Thing 1: accuracy, or the ability to repeatedly hit the same spot you aim at. A lot of factors play into this, including barrel length, twist rate, projectile weight, muzzle velocity. Those are variables that can he controlled by finding the ammunition that best performs in a given gun. We won’t go into shooter variables just yet, but those are the ones that are generally the limiting factors.

Thing 2. Precision, or the ability to hit any given spot on demand. That’s primarily a done after you’ve achieved accuracy. Practice, practice, practice.

Thing 3. Ballistic performance. This is where we take a given gun and ammo combination and do the math to tell us the ‘science’ behind where any given shot will hit. Calculators can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you, but experience gained reading the wind at shooter position, target position, and any change points along the projectile’s trajectory.

Thing 4. Optic & Reticle. A whole world of need here, but understanding these two things are, in my opinion, as fundamental as Thing 1 and Thing 3.

Thing 5. Shooter mechanics. Everything ‘physical’ you do to pull the trigger. You can take an Olympic winning Anschutz and put in the hands of a novice and watch the end result. This is time spent behind the glass and trigger. Start indoors at 25 or 50 to control as much as possible. When you can repeatedly produce 5-shot groups less than 1”, lick the distance out another 24 yards. When you can do repeatedly at 100 yds, go outside. On a windy day. With unknown distances. Get frustrated gaining experience.

Thing 6. MPBR. Very definitely related to Thing 3 and Thing 4. Also helps understand the flattest plane between two known distances. It has it’s uses, but not for everybody.

Thing 7. Go buy a brick of CCI SV and shoot all 500 rounds one box at a time every day until the brick runs dry. Use the same type target at the same distance everyday. Report back on your improvement.

Thing 8. Accessories like bipods, gun bags, lead sleds, etc. can be worth their weight in gold. Other than a bipod, try to hold off on the Gucci shit until you’ve mastered the basics.

ETA: get a brick of CCI HV, too based on your setup pictured above. SV may not have enough oomphf to reliably cycle until your springs break in.

 

[RankAmateur]

Thing 6. MPBR. Very definitely related to Thing 3 and Thing 4. Also helps understand the flattest plane between two known distances. It has it’s uses, but not for everybody.

Thanks @toddnjoyce for the post and info. Agree, not for everyone, especially if training for precision. VERY useful for some real-world applications and for some competitions.

Again, not intending to patronize... In case OP is unfamiliar, MPBR is maximum point blank range, and is a distance specific to a rifle/optic/ammo/target/environment combination. Basically, the longest range at which a shooter can reliably hit a target of a specific size with a given rifle/optic/ammo, etc combination without trying to aim high or low to compensate for ballistic trajectory. Common assumptions include the size of the target being 6" in diameter, and that a hit ANYWHERE within that 6 inch target is good enough. OP started by laying out desired range of 100 - 200 yds. Unfortunately, MPBR for a 40gr bullet from a standard velocity load out of a 16" barrel with optic roughly 1.5" above bore comes out to about 90 yds. I.E., shooter could aim at the center of a 6" target that is anywhere from against the muzzle to 90 yds away and be assured of a hit. Aiming at the center of a target farther away than 90 yds will result in misses (low). So, if the desired range is 100-200 yds, the rifle will have to be zeroed beyond MPBR. Also, again depending on your desired result, simply reliably being able to hit a 6" gong may not be precise enough.

As an example for more precise MBPR, at one point I needed to set up an air rifle for pesting chipmunks. Most humane kill was a headshot. So, rifle had to reliably hit a moving 1/2 to 1 inch target. There was no way to optimize the zero for very close range, so zeroing was calculated to maximize the range at which a .22 cal 16gr diablo pellet with 900 FPS MV, aimed center of the head would actually strike somewhere between 1/2" high and 1/2" low. If I recall, that zero range was from something like 12 yds to 52 yds.

I only relate that as if the OP wished to set up his rifle to be able to hit within the 9 ring of a specific target (say the 9 ring is 2 inches in diameter), normal MPBR calculation assumptions would have to be modified. Additionally, if the OP's goal is to land rounds within the x ring (accuracy), MPBR likely wouldn't apply at all, and the shooter would need to calculate or DOPE ballistics for that specific engagement.

 

[toddnjoyce]

@RankAmateur, good summary. I threw the concept of MPBR out there because the OP mentioned two things; the first being flattest trajectory 22LR, which is going to be a function of mass * velocity and twist rate. The other being to gain an understanding of how a zero distance can impact trajectory when shooting unknown distances.

I chose not to delve into second focal plane vs first focal plane optics either even though it appears OP has a variable optic. I’m not assuming whether OP understands why focal plane needs to be conceptually understood in his quest, but that should be foundational knowledge gained when learning about optics and how they impact ballistics.

 

[RankAmateur]

@RankAmateur, good summary. I threw the concept of MPBR out there because the OP mentioned two things; the first being flattest trajectory 22LR, which is going to be a function of mass * velocity and twist rate. The other being to gain an understanding of how a zero distance can impact trajectory when shooting unknown distances.

I chose not to delve into second focal plane vs first focal plane optics either even though it appears OP has a variable optic. I’m not assuming whether OP understands why focal plane needs to be conceptually understood in his quest, but that should be foundational knowledge gained when learning about optics and how they impact ballistics.

Understood and agree. That foundational knowledge is highly relevant and extends even to the practicalities of apparent thickness of reticle lines when striving for precision.

@toddnjoyce: THIS right here is why I joined TGT. Tapping into the knowledge, experience, and camaraderie of other shooters and handloaders in TX. I love this s*%t. Through a previous forum, I was lucky enough to connect with an individual who was in charge of load development for the match team of a military branch. The learning I did around powders, case preparation, optics, ballistics, etc. was astounding. He also insisted that it was almost a responsibility to help less experienced shooters.

Thanks again for sharing your experience with the OP (and me). Feel free to delve wherever you like - I'm happy to play too

 

[Sasquatch]

A brick for 10 bucks? When was this, 1978?

Not THAT long ago. When I was getting into shooting 20 years ago, that was the going rate for Remington Golden Bullet 500 (or was it 550) round boxes at our local general store.

9mm steel case Wolf or Tula was $5-6 a box of 50, and brass cased Winchester USA (Winchester White Box) was about $8 / box for FMJ, or $10 for JHPs. $15 for a 20 round box of premium hollowpoints would make me balk.

.223 / 5.56 was usually $4-5 for a 20 round box.

Then the WOT kicked into gear - that caused ammo prices to get stupid. Car battery prices and fishing sinker prices also started shooting up - anything that used lead or brass or copper jumped in price and never came back down.

Then we had some high profile shootings and threats of more bans and the hoarders and scalpers pillaged retail stocks (still do in a lot of places) and here we are.

20 years flies by, but our "leaders" and their actions are squarely to blame why ammo is so damn expensive today, but that could be part of their damned plan to make the 2A just to expensive for people to exercise, knowing the courts would probably strike down any of the real draconian shit on a federal level.

 

[robertc1024]

Great stuff gents. I find it interesting that the CCI SV keeps coming up. A buddy of mine and I went to the range one time with two of my .22 bolt rifles. Being an engineering nerd, I probably had 10 types of ammo - a couple varieties of Eley, mini mags, CCI SV, golden bullets, thunderduds, Federal match, Aguila - various types, some kind of Norma match etc.

We both shot groups at 50 yards with both rifles with all the different ammo. At the end of the day, both rifles and both shooters shot the best groups with the Eley and CCI SV. There was very little difference between those two. Next on the list was the Federal AutoMatch and surprisingly (to me anyway) was the Aguila Target Competition.

So, in answer to the OP's original question, CCI SV or the Fed Auto Match would be my choices. Those are all I buy these days except - as what Todd said - I keep a stash of mini mags too because my Buckmark won't cycle anything else.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Not THAT long ago...

Pre-2012. Samdy Hook was the first ‘big’ hike. That took until 2017 to sort itself out.

CCI SV can be had for $4.99/50 today, or roughly 40% higher than 2019 prices.

Shop products in Rimfire today | CCI Ammunition

CCI Ammunition

www.cci-ammunition.com

 

[Tank]

Man...this thread really turned into something to learn from, like a training course into itself! Thank you for your input and advisement.

So...I have realized now that this project of learning is not a quick "use this ammo and go shoot 100 rounds and you will become an expert" A TON of factors come into play. I have spent quite a bit of time as well lurking on the rimfire website over the past two days.

Picked up some Norco Tac 22 and CCI stinger varmit ammo yesterday to try. I have also read that a rifle rest would assist in this endeavor as well. Saw this on Amazon and thought about picking it up, unless you guys have a better suggestion. It's inexpensive and seems to have a lot of positive reviews.

Caldwell Stinger Adjustable Ambidextrous Rifle Shooting Rest with Lightweight Design for Rifle Shooting, Stability, Sight In https://a.co/d/9bWffcU

Previous, my thoughts were to go to the range and pop off a bunch of rounds seeing what happens...now my thought pattern is to 1st plan an entire day at the range zeroing in, 50yrds, shoot and learn to breathe, position and practice till about a 1-4in consistent pattern is realized, then move to 100yrd and do the same if that goal is achieved.

This is kind of exciting in a way.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Don’t forget pics. Trials of sifferent ammo at 50. The Blazer performed better than expected, honestly.

Then when you start shooting groups. Every 5 shot group needs to be analyzed, no better way than with a ballistic calc app.

 

[Axxe55]

Hijack away brother, I hold very little experience in long rifles but am trainable. Appreciate this!

Acouple of suggestions or points. Get a decent scope if you don't have one. keep notes on your shooting sessions. Get a sturdy table or shooting platform and some decent sand bgs, or a shootinh rest, to try and remove as much human error from the testin.

Last, but not least, have fun!

 

[Tank]

Don’t forget pics. Trials of sifferent ammo at 50. The Blazer performed better than expected, honestly.

Then when you start shooting groups. Every 5 shot group needs to be analyzed, no better way than with a ballistic calc app.

I actually thought about pulling out that silly $3000 DSLR I bought and never really freaking used to take pictures from the bench. Might as well get some use out of it...

I like your organization of ammo to target, I am going to use that!

 

[RankAmateur]

Saw this on Amazon and thought about picking it up, unless you guys have a better suggestion. It's inexpensive and seems to have a lot of positive reviews.

Caldwell Stinger Adjustable Ambidextrous Rifle Shooting Rest with Lightweight Design for Rifle Shooting, Stability, Sight In https://a.co/d/9bWffcU

Previous, my thoughts were to go to the range and pop off a bunch of rounds seeing what happens...now my thought pattern is to 1st plan an entire day at the range zeroing in, 50yrds, shoot and learn to breathe, position and practice till about a 1-4in consistent pattern is realized, then move to 100yrd and do the same if that goal is achieved.

This is kind of exciting in a way.

Stinger rest is fine, but just be sure the bench it's on is solid and stable. You can probably do just as well with sand bags for less, but there's nothing wrong with the Stinger.

The key to evaluating the ammo is consistency. You have to do the SAME thing every time you pull the trigger. If you are jerking the trigger, or your point of aim is moving around as the trigger breaks, you aren't really evaluating the ammo. The rest will help take some of the "you" variables out of the situation, but it will only HELP. I recommend you get used to the rest a bit before evaluating specific ammo. Not a big deal, but set up your rifle on the rest just the way you would to shoot. Get yourself settled behind the rifle, get your sight picture so that it isn't moving, and pull the trigger without ammo in the rifle (dry fire). Evaluate whether the reticle of your sight picture moves AT ALL when the trigger breaks. If it does, YOU are doing something that needs to be addressed (jerking the trigger, anticipating, leaning into the stock, tensing your neck and changing pressure of your cheek weld, etc. Do the dry fire practice until you can pull the trigger time and time again without the sight picture moving.

Then, add ammo, but repeat the above a bit now with ammo in the rifle, paying attention to whether you have changed your technique at all just because the rifle is now going bang. (You may now be flinching in anticipation, or leaning into the buttstock more because there is actually a tiny recoil, etc. As others have recommended, shoot a BUNCH of ammo with only the intent of getting used to the rifle firing and you minimizing your influence on the POA as you're pressing the trigger.

After all of that, then go back and shoot the various ammo in 5 shot groups. The groupings should be different between the various cartridges, so you're going to have to resist the very human reaction to try to FIX the problem (this group is starting to be bigger than the last one, so maybe I'm not holding the rifle tightly enough this time; or these bullets are hitting lower so maybe I should aim a little higher, etc.). Don't do anything differently between groups. Set your POA to the center of the specific target or target section, and concentrate on consistent technique. Let the bullets strike where they will. Evaluate the results/ammo AFTER you are done.

I don't recommend trying to do everything in one long range session. You WILL fatigue, and you may draw conclusions about ammo grouping and which ammo your rifle "likes" based on YOUR performance. Also, don't set a specific group size objective as some ammo/rifle combinations will NEVER produce small groups.

Most of all, have fun. This can be frustrating, so take each range session as a learning experience and enjoy what you learn. As soon as you start getting tired or frustrated, call it a day and go get a beer. You can go back to the range tomorrow and learn more!

 

[Axxe55]

Stinger rest is fine, but just be sure the bench it's on is solid and stable. You can probably do just as well with sand bags for less, but there's nothing wrong with the Stinger.

The key to evaluating the ammo is consistency. You have to do the SAME thing every time you pull the trigger. If you are jerking the trigger, or your point of aim is moving around as the trigger breaks, you aren't really evaluating the ammo. The rest will help take some of the "you" variables out of the situation, but it will only HELP. I recommend you get used to the rest a bit before evaluating specific ammo. Not a big deal, but set up your rifle on the rest just the way you would to shoot. Get yourself settled behind the rifle, get your sight picture so that it isn't moving, and pull the trigger without ammo in the rifle (dry fire). Evaluate whether the reticle of your sight picture moves AT ALL when the trigger breaks. If it does, YOU are doing something that needs to be addressed (jerking the trigger, anticipating, leaning into the stock, tensing your neck and changing pressure of your cheek weld, etc. Do the dry fire practice until you can pull the trigger time and time again without the sight picture moving.

Then, add ammo, but repeat the above a bit now with ammo in the rifle, paying attention to whether you have changed your technique at all just because the rifle is now going bang. (You may now be flinching in anticipation, or leaning into the buttstock more because there is actually a tiny recoil, etc. As others have recommended, shoot a BUNCH of ammo with only the intent of getting used to the rifle firing and you minimizing your influence on the POA as you're pressing the trigger.

After all of that, then go back and shoot the various ammo in 5 shot groups. The groupings should be different between the various cartridges, so you're going to have to resist the very human reaction to try to FIX the problem (this group is starting to be bigger than the last one, so maybe I'm not holding the rifle tightly enough this time; or these bullets are hitting lower so maybe I should aim a little higher, etc.). Don't do anything differently between groups. Set your POA to the center of the specific target or target section, and concentrate on consistent technique. Let the bullets strike where they will. Evaluate the results/ammo AFTER you are done.

I don't recommend trying to do everything in one long range session. You WILL fatigue, and you may draw conclusions about ammo grouping and which ammo your rifle "likes" based on YOUR performance. Also, don't set a specific group size objective as some ammo/rifle combinations will NEVER produce small groups.

Most of all, have fun. This can be frustrating, so take each range session as a learning experience and enjoy what you learn. As soon as you start getting tired or frustrated, call it a day and go get a beer. You can go back to the range tomorrow and learn more!

Lots of good information in this post.

 

[scattergun6]

This is kind of exciting in a way.

You got it Tank! This is kind of exciting...this is what shooting is all about!
Have fun with it.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Do not dry fire rimfire without a dummy round in the chamber as that can damage the firing pin.

Also, if I’m lucky, I can get thru 50 rounds in about an hour and not be worn out mentally.

 

[Axxe55]

Depending on how many types of ammo you plan on testing, might be better to break it up into several shoooting sessions.

 

[toddnjoyce]

When I'm testing 22LR ammo, I try to keep everything the same as possible, so I try to use 5 different loads with 2x 5-round strings or 1x 10 round string. That ends up being 50 rounds, takes me about an hour to run through, and 10 rounds is enough to figure out what's best for any particular gun (in the beginning). Some guys will find a lot that performs exceedingly well and will buy the entire lot and curate from that lot as required.

 

[easy rider]

I'm not sure if one should think about cost effective as far as ammo. Is cheap ammo worth the misfires or squib rounds?

While my lever action and my wheel gun doesn't have much problems with most .22LR ammo, my Ruger 10/22 is more finicky. I tried the thunderbolts, but so far the CCI Mini-Mags seem to work best in the 10/22 (if you can call it a 10/22, or even a Ruger anymore after upgrades). Remington is also dirtier in my opinion.

Best thing is find what works best with your gun, and stick with it, especially if you hunt with it.

 

[RankAmateur]

Gentlemen, Target Sports USA is running specials for prime members today for Prime Day. Among them are .22LR CCI SV and Federal Champion 40gr at 6.2 cents per round. Thunderbolts are available at the same price. Best prices I've seen in several months...