Black Powder Firearms

[Fisherman777]

You can beat the rap but you won't beat the ride!

If a LEO wants to make an issue of it, you with be charged with SOMETHING. Arguing points of law with a cop is pointless and even though you may prevail in court later, it will cost time, trouble and money. Why push it? Get your CHL and do it right.

I'm a believer in fighting when the situation warrants it but you need to pick your battles. Fighting EVERY battle turns you into a Don Quixote going around attacking windmills.

Flash

I understand the not beating the ride and all of that. But why not train the officers to LEAVE US THE HECK ALONE if we've done nothing wrong and if what we're doing is legal? I really don't get it. Why would he "find" something to charge someone with? Not cop bashing. I really don't understand. If someone knows.

 

[MR Redneck]

While on this topic of beating the the rap. What needs to be addressed more now day's than ever before is the Law Officers who make the effort to give a person "that kind of ride".
If a person isnt doing anything wrong, leave em alone. Cops that make the effort to simlpy find any reason at all to throw somebody in jail are not doing any justice at all. This kind of crap does nothing but create negativity.
I know a few Law Men and women who wont arrest a person on a gun related offense unless that person is doing something else wrong. They see things the same way I do, guns aint illegal unless your doing a crime!

 

[dobarker]

If you're 20 and have less than 3-5 months before you turn 21, go ahead and get the CHL class out of the way and then when you turn 21, send in the paperwork. Most instructors don't have a problem with this. It's what I did and it worked well.

 

[bones_708]

I realize this is an old thread but I was doing some research and came across this and thought I might as well update it for those who might be mislead by the info.

Now I've found reference to the cases but I haven't found the cases themselves but there have been several convictions for carrying black powder weapons even with the C&R exemption. The courts have reportedly held that the Legislative intent was to exempt antique or replica weapons when they were being treated as historical items. That the exemption doesn't apply when the possessors of the firearms are using and treating them as firearms. At least one case was a felon in possession PC 46.04 which uses the same weapon definitions that apply to unlawful carrying of a weapon PC46.02. Now you might skate by or the ADA might not know and refuse to press charges but many will know and at best your plain reading of the law saying it's legal will be used in your appeal when you are found guilty because right now, AFAIK, there hasn't been a successful appeal making your conviction almost assured.

 

[Armybrat]

Austin LEOs will charge you like they did these guys:Three Men ?Illegally? Arrested for Openly Carrying ?Black Powder? Pistols in Texas ? Here?s Why They Are Willing to ?Fight This All the Way to the Supreme Court? | TheBlaze.com

 

[bones_708]

Those guys were wearing arrest me signs and shockingly enough the cops finally arrested them for DC. Mind you it would have been absolutely legal to arrest for UCW because, according to Texas courts, the exemption from the definition of a firearm, allows one to prove to a court that the definition doesn't apply not that it provides a defence to arrest. The change in the law was in part for reenactors and such. I say that because the same bill that made the change also allows bowie knifes and swords to be carried by reenactors. No not every black powdered gun would be allowed under this exemption. It has to be a "qualifying" replica or a gun made before 1899. Can't fire centerfire ammo if it is a replica and it must be a replica of a gun made before 1899. It is impossible for the cops to know every model of a gun that qualifies or that they would know antique guns well enough to know if there was a great enough difference between a replica and an original to know if it "qualifies". So as such an arrest while may be dismissed later is clearly lawful and since they are not carrying the firearms as historical pieces but as weapons they should expect the police to treat them as such. As to the DC since it has not been ruled upon as such the fact that they were wearing firearms openly in a manner that any reasonable person might believe illegal, since they were treating them as firearms and deadly weapons and not as historical items, you can argue that the desire and reasonable public response would be concern upon seeing the men. Not that I personally agree or disagree, but without case law it seems like something that would rise to the level that could be put in front of the jury.

 

[Armybrat]

Then the police should educate themselves better about the laws they are supposed to enforce. Naturally it costs the law-abiding citizen thousands of dollars in legal fees to get the charge dismissed.

 

[Moonpie]

You can argue its exemption but many courts consider one a deadly weapon.
Carrying it openly WILL bring The Man down on you.

 

[Acera]

Posts 12-15 in this thread clearly define what ^^^^ you guys ^^^^ are trying to get across, but with the actual statue included in the posting.

 

[pistolpadre]

Another issue that was brought up earlier.. how effective is the black powder round.. i remember a well done piece in one of the handgun magazines about two maybe three years ago.. sure some of you saw this.. they were using 1" thick pine boards spaced a couple of inches apart.. think there were 10 boards.. and they did comparison shooting of a number of black powder and modern smokeless powder.. it was a fasinating (sp!?) report.. i remember at the time being really impressed with how well they stacked up compared to the modern 9mm or 38 spl... they make a couple small frame 36 caliber "bankers" models that could be used in a heartbeat .. consider that your always in condition one... sure you have to cock that hammer, and the cylinders are going to leave grease all over your cloths lol, but honestly they might be a lot better than expected..

 

[Armybrat]

Well, Bill Hickok wasn't exactly ineffective with his two '51 Navys.

 

[ROGER4314]

I get it that he is underage but God willing, he will grow into a CHL.

One of my HS students carried a "Marksman" BB gun in his car. In the dark, it looks just like a 1911. I advised him to get rid of the pistol as it could get him killed.

Flash

 

[bones_708]

Then the police should educate themselves better about the laws they are supposed to enforce. Naturally it costs the law-abiding citizen thousands of dollars in legal fees to get the charge dismissed.

I thought I just got done explaining....... you know what maybe the protesters should of done a bit more research because from my point of view it's almost certain to result in a conviction if the DA bothers to take it all the way to court. If a conviction is even halfway possible then whining about the cops arresting someone is just silly. Maybe these guys might get it overturned on appeal where they deal with the bigger picture but you need an arrest and conviction for that. If they want to set precedent then they had to be arrested if not then it was stupid because it didn't take much research for me to figure this crap out.