Bullet choices for .30 carbine -not crimping properly on case

[hallowzeve]

Howdy all,

I received an old saginaw m1 carbine from my grandfather. I've bought an old die set from a gun show years ago. It looks to have been (well) made in the 70's though I can't find a name on the dies.
Anyway, I've been having issues with the Hornady 110gr rn's and some the Speer 110gr plinkers crimping in the casing. On some you can pull the bullet itself out by hand with little effort. I've tried this on new brass and some re-used with the same results. I'm thinking I should bite the bullet (pun intended) and just get new, carbide die set.

Thoughts?
Cheers,
Bil

 

[Mikewood]

Your crimp is a function of your die elevation and your case length. First measure your cases to see if they are long enough. They need to be 1.290" long. Then we check the die. Raise the ram all the way up. Screw the crimp/seat die down untill it touches the ram. Lower the ram and put on a case with no bullet. Raise the ram. Did the die crimp the case? If so your die is good. If not your die is bad. If it's ok back off the die and adjust for loading.

 

[Mikewood]

Ed to say I bet you have a few short cases mixed in with slightly longer ones. They all must be trimmed to the same length or seperated and loaded in batches by length.

 

[piledriver]

You need to check the expander ball in your resize die. It sounds like it's to big. The crimp does not give better neck tension. The inside of the neck should be about .001 to .002 under size to the bullet. Also make sure the bullets are .308. The tapper crimp should take out whats left of the bell if any at all and just a little more. keep in mind that the 30 M1 spaces off the case mouth. I have tried to over crimp 45ACPs and the RCBS die would only crimp so much (tapper crimp) as not to let the case mouth enter the free bore area of the barrel.

If you have good neck tension you really don't need a crimp at all.

 

[Deavis]

First of all, your bullet tension is set by your sizing and then neck expansion die it is not set by your crimp die. If you can pull the bullets out, then there is something very wrong with your setup. Check your ID after sizing and then after neck expansion, you'll probably find your culprit there. The bullets should be a max of .3090 and a minimum of .3060. The SAAMI specs are online, bookmark them.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/30%20Carbine.pdf

After you sort the neck tension, set your crimp to remove the flare, 0.003 over the maximum neck diameter works well as a starting point. You won't be able to overcrimp a round, the difference between the chamber ledge and the neck diameter is almost .0225. Good luck getting 20 thousandths of crimp out of your die without some serious effort on your part.

 

[piledriver]

Yah I was thinking the 30 M1 was a two die set. it's a three. the bell die expands the neck. I have two 30 M1 die sets. One expander ball is .3045 and the other is .3065.

Check your expander and see what size it is. Also resize a empty round and check the inside neck dia.

 

[medalguy]

And watch the case length, it's pretty critical. Too long and the case won't fully enter the chamber, opening up the way for an out-of-battery kaboom. Too short and the round may fall into the chamber, and if the extractor doesn't lock onto the rim, the round won't fire.

I wouldn't waste money on a carbide die. They're expensive. The carbine round is tapered, not straight wall, so the carbide extends the full length of the die. Expensive. Just do as suggested and be sure you're properly sizing the case and properly taper crimping it just to remove the belling..

 

[hallowzeve]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. I'm very careful about case length, and the piledriver and Deavis's comments sound pretty spot on for my issues. The fact that I bought them used and cheaply lends a lot of creedance to their theories. I'm out of town on business, but I'll check when I get home. Thanks again.
Bil

 

[piledriver]

Any auto should not fire if out of battery! if so you have a bigger problem. I have heard of the universal M1 carbine firing out of battery. In my opinion that is a trash gun where it belongs. no auto should fire out of battery! Period!

If the case is to short you stand the chance of a light primer strike. more than likely it was trimmed to short. not a problem you find often if at all.

 

[Deavis]

30 carbine is loaded like a pistol round, so you have to think about it in that context. If you want carbide, you can get it for the same price as normal steel sets from RCBS or Hornady. Lee isn't my favorite but you can have it for a good price.

Carbide 3-Die Set 30 Carbine

Let us know how it goes when you get home