CA takes the lead again

[Antares]

Wow another Law in CA that could be a threat to all lawful gun owners legal confiscation. What if they thought someone had too many guns and just felt they could be dangerous?? Plenty of room for abuse.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/12/new-law-lets-cops-confiscate-guns-without-notice/

 

[Dustyzz]

Stupid is as stupid does and California leads the nation in pure stupidity.

 

[Lakerat24]

^^^^^
What he said

 

[vmax]

Stupid is as stupid does and California leads the nation in pure stupidity.

the bad thing is that sometimes their stupid leaks out into the other states

 

[zincwarrior]

On the flip side, we are all saying that the one thing linking most of the mass shootings is a person with mental issues.

 

[Bozz10mm]

That incident is just an excuse for more gun control. IIRC, half of the deaths were by stabbing, and most of those wounded were by his automobile. No mention of knives or automobiles in the new law.

 

[zincwarrior]

What incident are you referring to? I'm referring to generally all of the recent mass murders.

Our mental health system needs to be completely refurbished and this needs to be dealt with before real gun confiscation comes our way. We can't say its about mental health and then attack attempts to take that approach.

 

[BRD@66]

What incident are you referring to? I'm referring to generally all of the recent mass murders.

Our mental health system needs to be completely refurbished and this needs to be dealt with before real gun confiscation comes our way. We can't say its about mental health and then attack attempts to take that approach.

He (Bozz) read the linked article & is referring to the murderer (who I shall not name) in the article.

 

[zincwarrior]

Ok thanks for the clarification.

 

[Whistler]

What incident are you referring to? I'm referring to generally all of the recent mass murders.

Our mental health system needs to be completely refurbished and this needs to be dealt with before real gun confiscation comes our way. We can't say its about mental health and then attack attempts to take that approach.

Who is this "We" you mention? I don't think it's possible to predict with 100% certainty who will/will not commit mass murder (or any crime) and until that's possible (maybe not even then) don't agree we should deny anyone. It's unfortunate that there are bad people out there but until they do bad things they are just "people". Every single person in the world is a "potential" criminal or murderer under the right set of circumstances though on the flip-side every single person has the potential to not act. I read the weird creepy crap he wrote but some people who never committed a crime make a good living writing weird creepy crap or just like it.

You are not a bad guy until you act and no matter how much we might want to we can't eliminate evil from the world or make everyone safe. The problem is we try too hard to fix things that just can't be fixed unless you want to give up your freedom, rights and free will. This pre-crime BS is just feel-good legislation that further diminishes freedom. How long until the criteria of "danger to themselves and others" is simply possession of a firearm? Or 10 rounds of ammo? Or a certain book? Or a bacon cheeseburger?

 

[Mreed911]

Who is this "We" you mention? I don't think it's possible to predict with 100% certainty who will/will not commit mass murder (or any crime) and until that's possible (maybe not even then) don't agree we should deny anyone.

Well of course we should. The schizophrenic who has a hard time staying on his/her meds is an obvious candidate.

It should, however, be the burden of the state to prove their incompetence, there should be avenues of appeal, and no decision should be final - there should be continuous periodic review.

Anyone determined to be unsafe should be, at a minimum, placed in a controlled environment. Not prison, not a mental hospital meant to replace a prison, perhaps just an access-controlled assisted-living community. They're just as dangerous with hands, knives, etc., so it's not the object that's the danger, it's the person.

Of the few people I had deadly force encounters with as an officer, one of the top 10 was a very, very confused (dementia) elderly gentleman who had a gun and showed it to the prostitute who "needed a ride" (she flagged him down then got scared shitless when he showed her a different gun than she expected). It didn't help that on our arrival his instinct was to reach in his pocket to pull the gun out to show us, either. Thankfully judicious application of physical restraint ended that situation without injury to anyone.

That said, there's no way he needs to be doing ANYTHING in public by himself anymore, but we can't make every elderly person a ward of the state, either. That's not the state's job.

 

[Whistler]

Not to point out the obvious but he threatened someone with a firearm (i.e. acted) and in that case became a "bad person", of course he should be restrained. My issue with "burden of the state to prove" is the potential for personal opinion or corruption to influence that decision. I'm not an anarchist but my idea of freedom/free will boils down to; don't take other peoples stuff, don't hurt people. Don't do that and you can be as eccentric, off-beat or downright weird as you want to be, no one should be able to restrict your ability to do that because of their opinion.

 

[zincwarrior]

You are not a bad guy until you act

But you can be insane before you act.

 

[Whistler]

Did they make crazy illegal and I missed it?

 

[zincwarrior]

Not to point out the obvious but he threatened someone with a firearm (i.e. acted) and in that case became a "bad person", of course he should be restrained. My issue with "burden of the state to prove" is the potential for personal opinion or corruption to influence that decision. I'm not an anarchist but my idea of freedom/free will boils down to; don't take other peoples stuff, don't hurt people. Don't do that and you can be as eccentric, off-beat or downright weird as you want to be, no one should be able to restrict your ability to do that because of their opinion.

This is a fair point, and the devil is in the details.

However, philosophically, lots of things are limited based on physical capacity. One can't drive if their eyesight is too poor without corrective vision as an example. This is another physical infirmity. Considering the almost impossible practical standard to commit someone, this is not far from that.

 

[Mreed911]

Did they make crazy illegal and I missed it?

Yes. Civilly, "crazy and dangerous" are, in fact, torts. Someone doesn't have to commit a violent act to be at risk of violence.

It IS a slippery slope and one where the rights of the citizen must ABSOLUTELY be upheld vs. the responsibilities of the State. it should not be subject to any sort of "personal opinion" at all and only true medical diagnosis/prognosis should be considered.

"I'm scared of what he'll do" is irrelevant. WHY they're scared IS relevant. Articulable fact or action.

 

[Whistler]

Good posts.

 

[Antares]

They are just chipping away at our rights. They make it sound like 'who wouldn't disagree with this" and a lot of people will say hey that's ok. This coming week dumbo is going to announce some of his Executive Orders on gun control and I bet some will say "well that's OK sounds reasonable" , but there goes another chip off our rights. Sort of like that old poem they started with xxxxx and no one said anything then they came for yyyyyy and nobody said anything then the came for me.

 

[ROGER4314]

California is tightening the noose around the necks of law abiding citizens. Sooner or later, some of them are going to buck and the shooting war may begin.

I say the battle "may" begin, because after seeing the House-to-House searches without warrants conducted in Boston, not one of those gutless bastards resisted. I've been all through California and saw nothing that indicated that any of them had balls.

Flash

 

[bandook]

CA has no right to bear arms in its state constitution so gun control has always been easy.