Castle Doctorine: A simple definition
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http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/beginner-articles/8733-texas-gun-laws-use-deadly-force.html
Sec. 9.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Custody" has the meaning assigned by Section 38.01.
(2) "Escape" has the meaning assigned by Section 38.01.
(3) "Deadly force" means force that is intended or known by the actor to cause, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.
(4) "Habitation" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.
(5) "Vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.
Sec. 30.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Habitation" means a structure or vehicle that is adapted for the overnight accommodation of persons, and includes:
(A) each separately secured or occupied portion of the structure or vehicle; and
(B) each structure appurtenant to or connected with the structure or vehicle.
(2) "Building" means any enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade, manufacture, ornament, or use.
(3) "Vehicle" includes any device in, on, or by which any person or property is or may be propelled, moved, or drawn in the normal course of commerce or transportation, except such devices as are classified as "habitation."
Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.
The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
Sec. 9.05. RECKLESS INJURY OF INNOCENT THIRD PERSON.
Even though an actor is justified under this chapter in threatening or using force or deadly force against another, if in doing so he also recklessly injures or kills an innocent third person, the justification afforded by this chapter is unavailable in a prosecution for the reckless injury or killing of the innocent third person.
Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);
(3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other;
(4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:
(A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and
(B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor; or
(5) if the actor sought an explanation from or discussion with the other person concerning the actor's differences with the other person while the actor was:
(A) carrying a weapon in violation of Section 46.02; or
(B) possessing or transporting a weapon in violation of Section 46.05.
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
(d) The use of deadly force is not justified under this subchapter except as provided in Sections 9.32, 9.33, and 9.34.
(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.
(f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.
(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON.
A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY.
(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.
A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY.
A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
Source: Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Custody" has the meaning assigned by Section 38.01.
(2) "Escape" has the meaning assigned by Section 38.01.
(3) "Deadly force" means force that is intended or known by the actor to cause, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.
(4) "Habitation" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.
(5) "Vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.
Sec. 30.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Habitation" means a structure or vehicle that is adapted for the overnight accommodation of persons, and includes:
(A) each separately secured or occupied portion of the structure or vehicle; and
(B) each structure appurtenant to or connected with the structure or vehicle.
(2) "Building" means any enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade, manufacture, ornament, or use.
(3) "Vehicle" includes any device in, on, or by which any person or property is or may be propelled, moved, or drawn in the normal course of commerce or transportation, except such devices as are classified as "habitation."
Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.
The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
Sec. 9.05. RECKLESS INJURY OF INNOCENT THIRD PERSON.
Even though an actor is justified under this chapter in threatening or using force or deadly force against another, if in doing so he also recklessly injures or kills an innocent third person, the justification afforded by this chapter is unavailable in a prosecution for the reckless injury or killing of the innocent third person.
Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);
(3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other;
(4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:
(A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and
(B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor; or
(5) if the actor sought an explanation from or discussion with the other person concerning the actor's differences with the other person while the actor was:
(A) carrying a weapon in violation of Section 46.02; or
(B) possessing or transporting a weapon in violation of Section 46.05.
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
(d) The use of deadly force is not justified under this subchapter except as provided in Sections 9.32, 9.33, and 9.34.
(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.
(f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.
(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON.
A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY.
(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.
A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY.
A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
Source: Texas Penal Code
Here is how the bill was amended:
| SECTION 1. Section 9.01, Penal Code, is amended by adding | |
| Subdivisions (4) and (5) to read as follows: | |
| (4)"Habitation" has the meaning assigned by Section | |
| 30.01. | |
| (5)"Vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section | |
| 30.01. | |
| SECTION 2. Section 9.31, Penal Code, is amended by amending | |
| Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (e) and (f) to read as | |
| follows: | |
| (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is | |
| justified in using force against another when and to the degree the | |
| actor [he] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary | |
| to protect the actor [himself] against the other's use or attempted | |
| use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was | |
| immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed | |
| to be reasonable if the actor: | |
| (1)knew or had reason to believe that the person | |
| against whom the force was used: | |
| (A)unlawfully and with force entered, or was | |
| attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied | |
| habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; | |
| (B)unlawfully and with force removed, or was | |
| attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the | |
| actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or | |
| (C)was committing or attempting to commit | |
| aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual | |
| assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery; | |
| (2)did not provoke the person against whom the force | |
| was used; and | |
| (3)was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, | |
| other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or | |
| ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used. | |
| (e)A person who has a right to be present at the location | |
| where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against | |
| whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity | |
| at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before | |
| using force as described by this section. | |
| (f)For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether | |
| an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the | |
| use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider | |
| whether the actor failed to retreat. | |
| SECTION 3. Section 9.32, Penal Code, is amended to read as | |
| follows: | |
| Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person | |
| is justified in using deadly force against another: | |
| (1) if the actor [he] would be justified in using force | |
| against the other under Section 9.31; and | |
| (2) [if a reasonable person in the actor's situation | |
| would not have retreated; and | |
| [(3)] when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably | |
| believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: | |
| (A) to protect the actor [himself] against the | |
| other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or | |
| (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of | |
| aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual | |
| assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery. | |
| (b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the | |
| deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that | |
| subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor: | |
| (1)knew or had reason to believe that the person | |
| against whom the deadly force was used: | |
| (A)unlawfully and with force entered, or was | |
| attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied | |
| habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; | |
| (B)unlawfully and with force removed, or was | |
| attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the | |
| actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or | |
| (C)was committing or attempting to commit an | |
| offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B); | |
| (2)did not provoke the person against whom the force | |
| was used; and | |
| (3)was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, | |
| other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or | |
| ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used | |
| [requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor | |
| who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of | |
| force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of | |
| the actor]. | |
| (c)A person who has a right to be present at the location | |
| where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person | |
| against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in | |
| criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not | |
| required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this | |
| section. | |
| (d)For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining | |
| whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed | |
| that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not | |
| consider whether the actor failed to retreat. | |
| SECTION 4. Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies | |
| Code, is amended to read as follows: | |
| Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A [It | |
| is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal | |
| injury or death that the] defendant who uses force or[, at the time | |
| the cause of action arose, was justified in using] deadly force that | |
| is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune | |
| from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from | |
| the defendant's [against a person who at the time of the] use of | |
| force or deadly force, as applicable [was committing an offense of | |
| unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant]. | |
| SECTION 5. (a) Sections 9.31 and 9.32, Penal Code, as | |
| amended by this Act, apply only to an offense committed on or after | |
| the effective date of this Act. An offense committed before the | |
| effective date of this Act is covered by the law in effect when the | |
| offense was committed, and the former law is continued in effect for | |
| this purpose. For the purposes of this subsection, an offense is | |
| committed before the effective date of this Act if any element of | |
| the offense occurs before the effective date. | |
| (b) Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, as | |
| amended by this Act, applies only to a cause of action that accrues | |
| on or after the effective date of this Act. An action that accrued | |
| before the effective date of this Act is governed by the law in | |
| effect at the time the action accrued, and that law is continued in | |
| effect for that purpose. | |
| SECTION 6. This Act takes effect September 1, 2007. |
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
The Castle Doctrine (ill named, at best) did three things. It made two changes to the use of force laws and one to the civil code. It is not the magic buillet (pun not intended) most people think it is.
1) To be justified in using deadly force to protect persons, one must "reasonably believe" it is immeditely necessary. Reasonable belief is a subjective term. The legislature added 3 condictions that, if met, would cause reasonable belief to be presumed.
2) It made a change to the law that eliminated this phrase from using deadly force outside of your residence; "a person is justified in using deadly force against another if a reasonable person in the same situation would not have retreated". The law made it clear that if you are at a place where you have a right to be (among other conditions) that you do not have to retreat. Florida calls that the "Stand your ground" law.
3) The change to the civil code making a person immune from civil liability if sued and the court determines you were justified for using force or deaadly force under chapter 9 of the penal code.
Since the OP is new I will refrain from judging his intent here.
1) To be justified in using deadly force to protect persons, one must "reasonably believe" it is immeditely necessary. Reasonable belief is a subjective term. The legislature added 3 condictions that, if met, would cause reasonable belief to be presumed.
2) It made a change to the law that eliminated this phrase from using deadly force outside of your residence; "a person is justified in using deadly force against another if a reasonable person in the same situation would not have retreated". The law made it clear that if you are at a place where you have a right to be (among other conditions) that you do not have to retreat. Florida calls that the "Stand your ground" law.
3) The change to the civil code making a person immune from civil liability if sued and the court determines you were justified for using force or deaadly force under chapter 9 of the penal code.
Since the OP is new I will refrain from judging his intent here.
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
Believe it or not there are quite a few folks, some of them members here, who believe exactly as the OP posted. Him being new, I guess we "rhetorical and serious" members took him at face value.
Guess we are not as cool as some of you other cats.
Guess we are not as cool as some of you other cats.
You know, I dont think I have ever heard you tell a funny story or a joke and I kind of pictured you a a Sargent Friday from Dragnet type person.Believe it or not there are quite a few folks, some of them members here, who believe exactly as the OP posted. Him being new, I guess we "rhetorical and serious" members took him at face value.
Guess we are not as cool as some of you other cats.
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
I was pleasantly surprised a week ago or so on here, lol......
txinvestigator
TGT Addict
Now you should not have gone there.
Man, I went for a loooonnng ride on Sunday. It was so beautiful. The fresh airm sun, smells you just cannot get when in a car or truck.... I love that thing.
