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Confiscation has begun

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    Younggun

    Younggun

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    An article written by Tyler Durden who has managed to get Tony Montanas opinion on the incident which happened to a man who can't be identified and open carries a .25 automatic holstered on his belt.



    Sounds legit.
     
    R

    RevolverGuy

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    Younggun said:
    An article written by Tyler Durden who has managed to get Tony Montanas opinion on the incident which happened to a man who can't be identified and open carries a .25 automatic holstered on his belt.



    Sounds legit.
    Click to expand...

    Maybe he kept repeating “Say hello to my little friend!”.
     
    grasshopperglock

    grasshopperglock

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    benenglish

    benenglish

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    grasshopperglock said:
    The police took his gun without a warrant and without pressing any charges.
    Click to expand...
    Well, yes and not really.

    By my quick read of a couple of articles and the procedures in that state, the article is incomplete. If all procedures were followed, they did get a warrant after he refused, upon initial service, to hand over his guns. There would have been a court hearing up to 14 days after that.

    Now, the article doesn't make the timing clear as to whether the warrant was pre- or post-hearing. Either way, he'd only be without his guns for 14 days, max, if he went to the hearing and prevailed.

    The hearing is a prove-you're-innocent deal. The person asking for the court order must provide evidence that you're a danger. You get a chance to provide evidence that you're not.

    I see nothing in the procedures allowing for any robust pre-hearing discovery. Yes, a copy of the original filing can be very helpful but that's not the same as being able to depose witnesses before you get into court. In fact, the procedures allow judges to prohibit oral testimony from witnesses. The only thing that's guaranteed to be considered by the court are the documents from the initial filing and the documents filed by the respondent. Essentially, one side says "He's a danger", the other side says "No, I'm not" and the judge makes a decision about which is right. If the judge agrees with the complainant, the order becomes effective for a year, after which it can be overturned.

    Protection order statutes can be structured in such a way that the person impacted is not unfairly treated. This particular statute seems like it's strongly slanted towards removing guns. There are insufficient procedural safeguards in place to protect the interests of respondents. For example, the respondent may be served as few as 5 days prior to the court hearing; that's probably insufficient time to pull together a dossier of witness statements and other evidence proving the absence of danger. (Never mind that proving a negative is problematic, anyway.) Further, if that short time frame leaves the respondent unprepared, there's no appeal. Respondent loses their guns for a year. In 260 days, they can file a motion to have the order overturned but they're SOL for a year, anyway.

    It's not widespread confiscation. It's not even necessarily a bad idea. However, the concept is rife with potential for abuse and I have every confidence that it will be abused widely in non-free states.

    I'm willing to accept the notion that there should be a way for family members to tell a court that someone is nuts and shouldn't own guns. I'm willing to then let a court make that decision. I'm not comfortable with ex parte orders, time frames that are stacked against the respondent, and the lack of appeal rights. I think that proper procedures would require that the court make an initial final (i.e., a decision that may be enforced while still be subject to being overturned on appeal) determination prior to confiscation.

    Of course, even a well-structured statute would forever be a pain for gun owners because we'd have to keep an eye on it to make sure that some "technical corrections" bill didn't turn it into a disaster. I'm sure such a fine-tuning bill would be introduced by anti-2A forces in every single legislative session.

    In short, the article is bad news. It's not "the brownshirts are coming to the ghetto" bad but it definitely illustrates the bad implementation of a poorly-thought-out statute.

    Note that the text above is based on summaries and guides to the law, not reading the actual statute. If a link to the statute were posted here, it might make it easier to be authoritative...or it could just be a briar patch in which I'd stay lost. Caveat emptor and IANAL.
     
    easy rider

    easy rider

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    I'd like to know where, other than private property, open carry is legal anywhere in Washington state, certainly wasn't when I lived there.
     
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