Diagnosing a Suspension issue.

[Koinonia]

2002 Mitsubishi Diamonte.

Rear Passenger suspension.

Hey!
My friends Birthday is coming up in a couple months and Id like to surprise him by fixing an issues hes had with his car for the past year or so. The issue is this: any driving with just a driver, or passengers, going up the road and hitting any bumps, causes the rear passenger tire to bump and rub against one of the suspensions conponents, wearing the inside driving surface of the tire smooth. It happens over speed bumps, just normal driving on all roads with minor surface irregularities, and under heavy acceleration.

I jacked up his car and took the tire off, and its clearly rubbing on a bar that comes up from the back side by the caliper and attaches with a bushing to a component in the back of the wheel well. Bushing looks good, and the tire apears aligned correctly.

He had the rear struts replaced, and it did not fix the issue.

When bouncing the car in the drive way, there is a very loud, and annoying squeak that sounds to me like the springs compressing and releasing, as it matches exactly to the bounces.

When driving the vehicle, and it starts to bump, the feel is as though the vehicle is fishtailing, when it is not.

Does anyone have an idea as to what the cause could be? I suspect a broken spring on the passengerside atrut but i cannot be sure, it appeared tight and did not move when pushed or pulled when the tire was off.

Now that i post about it, part of the issue could be a bad control arm bushing on the rear? I dont know. I dont think i can get pictures anytime soon, but suggestdions of things to inspect, and i can take those the next time im over there and just take a look around and teport back to yall.

 

[rsayloriii]

Take a pry bar to all the bushings. They can look good but have slop in them when pried against. Also, make sure to check ALL the bushings, even the other side. Sometimes it's the ones that aren't right there that are causing the problem.

 

[Vaquero]

Check for for and aft movement. Sounds like a trailing arm.

 

[TheDan]

Looks like other folks have had the same issue. I'm not familiar with the diamante but with the "wiggly" feeling I wouldn't be surprised if the bushings on the trailing arms or the toe control arms are completely shot. Sounds like something is changing the alignment as the wheel moves up and down.

1999 Mitsubishi Diamante Shakes and Wobbles Especially on I

 

[SIG_Fiend]

If you can get pics, that would help.

Not being able to compress the strut by hand, with the wheel off, doesn't necessarily mean anything. Most typical sedan springs are going to be 200-400+lb/in springs, which can take a LOT of force to try and compress (if maybe you're trying to press up on the bottom of the strut/wheel hub or something like that).

Sounds potentially like a control arm could be contacting the wheel. Looking at schematics of the rear suspension on those cars I would suggest that, if anything, it might possibly be contacting the upper control arm.

If not that, it might be something on the body/wheel well of the car itself. Considering the behavior you described, and the squeaking, I want to say it sounds like the shock is blown, allowing excessive movement of the suspension on that corner, possibly bottoming out and hitting the shock bump stops. Excessive suspension travel can always lead to some undesirable things, including allowing the tire/wheel to contact components they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

Also, the obvious question is, are the wheels and tires the stock factory size, or are they different? There could be several other things involved but, if the tire or wheel sizes are different, that could be a partial factor.

I would also pay attention to exactly where the tread is being worn away. Is it entirely on the contact surface of the tire? Is it partially on the sidewall as well? The exact placement, if you think about it in simple terms, will tell you most of what you need to know to be able to look in the wheel well and identify several things that might contact that exact area of the tire at some point throughout the suspension travel.

 

[Dawico]

I was thinking it may be a rim backspacing issue also.

 

[Koinonia]

From the picture dan posted, the tire is rubbing on the knuckle on the inside of the tire.

And tires are stock, and less then 6 months old.

 

[Leper]

The only way for a tire to contact the knuckle is if the tires are too wide, the wheels do not have the proper(too little) backspacing, the wheel bearing is trashed, or the knuckle is bent. The wheel bearing would be screaming if it was that bad, and with the vehicle lifted in that area you could move the tire around(wiggle it up and down and side to side. Ignore the knuckle bent statement because it would be a constant rub, not just over bumps.The geometry between the wheel and knuckle cannot change. It is a fixed location. Unless the wheel bearing was about to fall apart.

You may want to print the diagram and look at the car again, with it in hand. Again, with the exception of the bearing, those two parts cannot touch each other on a non-constant basis.

It can rub other places on an intermittent basis, if the locating bushings are wasted.

 

[Vaquero]

The only way for a tire to contact the knuckle is if the tires are too wide, the wheels do not have the proper(too little) backspacing, the wheel bearing is trashed, or the knuckle is bent. The wheel bearing would be screaming if it was that bad, and with the vehicle lifted in that area you could move the tire around(wiggle it up and down and side to side. Ignore the knuckle bent statement because it would be a constant rub, not just over bumps.The geometry between the wheel and knuckle cannot change. It is a fixed location. Unless the wheel bearing was about to fall apart.

You may want to print the diagram and look at the car again, with it in hand. Again, with the exception of the bearing, those two parts cannot touch each other on a non-constant basis.

It can rub other places on an intermittent basis, if the locating bushings are wasted.

Based on the drawing and op response. I agree with bearing issue.
Check the spindle close too.

 

[mitchntx]

There has to be more to the story.

I suspect a toe rod is bent from being curbed.

 

[Koinonia]

Toe rod?

 

[TheDan]

From the picture dan posted, the tire is rubbing on the knuckle on the inside of the tire.

I don't think that's possible. Pictures would be helpful.

Toe rod?

Yep; toe control arm. If it were bent like Mitch suggests it would definitely be changing the geometry a lot as the wheel moves up and down causing the rear wiggle.

 

[Koinonia]

Okay -
I will try and work with his wife and see if I cant come up with some pictures.

For now, I will try and describe what I saw.

The Inside edge of the tire, on the driving surface, was smoothed out (Had a glassy feel without being rubbed down to no tread) and matched the spot where the knuckle has a clean spot from some sort of rubbing. There is less then a quarter inch between the knuckle surface, and the surface of the tire on the inside of the wheel where it appears rubbed. (I could not fit my index finger between the tire and the knuckle when reaching back to it.)

There are no rub marks on the fender anywhere I could see.

I cannot seem to find a place to get a replacement Toe Control Arm, if it is indeed broken or bent out of shape. I'm looking to spend <$400 in parts to see if I cannot fix it. Time is not an issue for me.

Any other suggestions, or will I need to wait until I provide some pictures, or video/audio of it driving or doing a walk around?

 

[Dawico]

Okay -
I will try and work with his wife and see if I cant come up with some pictures.

For now, I will try and describe what I saw.

The Inside edge of the tire, on the driving surface, was smoothed out (Had a glassy feel without being rubbed down to no tread) and matched the spot where the knuckle has a clean spot from some sort of rubbing. There is less then a quarter inch between the knuckle surface, and the surface of the tire on the inside of the wheel where it appears rubbed. (I could not fit my index finger between the tire and the knuckle when reaching back to it.)

There are no rub marks on the fender anywhere I could see.

I cannot seem to find a place to get a replacement Toe Control Arm, if it is indeed broken or bent out of shape. I'm looking to spend <$400 in parts to see if I cannot fix it. Time is not an issue for me.

Any other suggestions, or will I need to wait until I provide some pictures, or video/audio of it driving or doing a walk around?

One easy thing is to check the tire size and make sure it matches. Very simple but if the tires have been replaced maybe one wrong one was grabbed and is a little wide. Make sure the rims match too if it isn't obvious.

Tire places get stuff mixed up on occasion.

 

[mitchntx]

And tires are stock, and less then 6 months old.

Before jumping off the parts replacement ledge, I would compare the size of tire installed 6 months ago with the size written on the door to make sure they match.

Being out of toe shouldn't cause a rub on the knuckle. Out that bad, you should hear the tire squeeling as it is driven.

To be honest, the final fix means it will have to go on a rack at least for an alignment.
While an admirable gesture, I don't see this as a driveway fix.

 

[mitchntx]

Treed by the dude from Lampassas ...

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Before jumping off the parts replacement ledge, I would compare the size of tire installed 6 months ago with the size written on the door to make sure they match.

Being out of toe shouldn't cause a rub on the knuckle. Out that bad, you should hear the tire squeeling as it is driven.

To be honest, the final fix means it will have to go on a rack at least for an alignment.
While an admirable gesture, I don't see this as a driveway fix.

Start there, its the simplest approach.

It appears it only occurs on compression so after comparing tire size that was replaced and checking inside the drivers door area to get the exact size of tire installed at the factory and insuring it does NOT have a set of replacement wheels that have a different mounting offset +/- then inspect and compare component(s) that are being rubbed with the other side of the car (if that side is not being rubbed) to see if one has been bent or twisted. Then inspect your bushings for MISSING bushing(s).

 

[Dawico]

Treed by the dude from Lampassas ...

You'll get used to it. It only hurts for a second.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Jack it up. Take the wheels off. Look at every bushing. Inspect for damage. Scuffs, scrapes, dents, nicks. Grab things and try to shake them. Use a pry bar to try and wiggle things if you have to. Check mounting points. Brackets. Arms. Bolts. Cables.

On things like knuckles.... The heavy metal stuff. If the part has 'flakes'. It'll look like the factory finish is flaking off. This means the part was bent at some point. Replace it.

The 3 series BMW has reported problems of rear suspension noise coming from a sub frame cracking off the floor pan. So you can consider any uni body car might have the same issue. So make sure to check those areas on your ride.


Folks could offer a million ways your rear suspension is making noise. The only thing that holds the 100% truth, is inspection by your own eyes. It's a bitch to diagnose a sound off the internet.

Get under your car. And look at every thing. Sounds travel through the car. Where you think the sound is coming from. Might be on the opposite side of the car. Start at the smallest part work up to big. Or big to small. Find your gremlins.

It was made by human hands. Therefore, human hands can fix it.

 

[Leper]

Tire cannot touch the knuckle, on an intermittent basis, unless the wheel bearing is coming apart. Yes, I said that already. I want to make sure it is understood as fact.
Many vehicles have very limited clearance in that area. Very limited.

the shock body is probably what he is actually looking at. Worn components can cause that kind of contact. We need more info.