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BurkGlocker
Active Member
Got bored... here's some pics... Yeah, the quality is crappy, but hey, like I said, I was bored...
Okay, for the thoughts... Testing was at 10 feet both bare and with 4-layers of denim, and bare shots at 25 yards. Weapon: Glock 22
Here are 165 gr. Federal HST (P40HST3):
These were goingto be my original carry ammo, because just looking at the energy diffference between the 180 gr load and the 165 gr load (408 ft-lbs vs. 468 ft-lbs) I though that it was going to be a great load, and probably still is. But the expansion was nowhere near what the 180's had. Penetration was consistent with the 180's, but I like the bigger flowers. The one on the right is the bare shot, the one on top is the denim shot. The upside down bullet is the 25 yard shot and still performed like the other two. Great load... Average expansion was only .700". A hundred-thousandths off the advertised "double the original diameter" claim. Penetration was around 12" for all loads, avereaged.
165 gr Winchester Ranger T-Series (RA40TA)
This was my second choice for carry, as I do prefer the 165 gr loads, but the same issue with the HSTs, didnt expand enough. Energy transfer was, though, quite impressive. The first jugs usually were split down the center and splayed out like a sacrifice. The top right bullet was the bare shot, and the one on the left was the denim shot. Bottom bullet was the 25 yard shot. Expansion was great during all tests (.775") but I measured over the exposed lead areas, but when measured over the talons, average expansion jumped to .825". Penetration was also nice, hovering around 13.5" for all bulets. Great load...
180 gr Winchester Ranger T-Series (RA40T)
Winchester has always made a fine Ranger line of ammunition. This load is no exception. The one on the bottom is the bare shot at 10 feet. Expansion was .825" over the exposed lead. The talons were pushed further back, to .770", but just looking at the design, I dont think there would be anyways that the talons were not going to be in play somehow, someway. But the kicker is the denim shots. Most of them opened up nicely, but occasionally I would have a non-expansion issue. This is not the first time I've had this issue with Ranger ammunition. 9mm+p, 40 S&W or the 45ACP stuff. This one shed one side of the jacket at the nose, but the other side was completely intact, but did show sepereation of the skives proving that it was trying to expand. The ones that did expand were around .725". The 25 yard shot on top averaged around .800" Penetration averaged around 13". Great load, just was hoping that I wouldnt have had the non-expansion issues. I would still carry it though, if I was out of my HSTs...
180 gr Federal HST in LEO packaging (P40HST1)
Ahhh... Hello HST! These are the 180 gr HSTs in the pretty LEO packaging and nickle cases. This is my carry load of choice. Bare shot at 10 feet yeilded an expanded bullet around .850" and just a perfect mushroom. That would be the bottom bullet. The one on the left is the denim shot, it was .750". Still impressive... The 25 yard shot was .760". Penetration was 13.5"+ for every shot. I say '+' because I had some that were around 16". But most hovered around 12.5-14.5"
180 gr Federal HST in white box packaging (XM40HC)
Now, I've been reading online that these are not factory seconds, an overrun of an order, yada, yada, yada. Well, now time for my opinion. I bought these just to see if they were the same bullet. On initial inspection, yes, it is the same bullet, just loaded up in plain Jane brass cases. But... When I started to look at the bullet itself, thats when I started noticing something. The skives on the side of the bullet are in fact, deeper and longer, about .015" longer. Conversing with my dad, I stated that maybe they had something throughout the bullet making process out of line. But also noted that they were going to expand more, if not come apart. This is all being discussed on our way back from Cabela's in Ft. Worth. I get home, start stuffing newspaper into jugs, which if you havent done it, is a long time consuming process. On the order of one whole day stuffing 40 jugs even employing the kids to help... Anyways... The first shot I make comfirmed my suspicions. The first bullet on the right is the bare 10 foot shot. Averaging it out, it was .865" for that one bullet, and thats even measuring the side without a petal and the largest side, largest diameter was .940". Losing the petal I thought maybe a fluke, but HA HA!, it wasnt. Every shot, every bullet shed one petal. This is out of 10 shots guys, every single one of them...lost a petal. The shot through denim surprised me though. It still managed a .750" average, even missing a petal! Largest diameter was .875". The 25 yard shot, the same thing, average of .870", even with a petal missing. Another thing I noticed though, penetration was straight and didnt notice any bullet yaw at all. In my opinion, Federal knew they screwed up, had a crap load of HST bullets lying around that they couldnt sell as LEO, and decided 'HEY! We can sell these to the civilian market! They're buying our stuff anyways, why the hell not?!" Even though they shed the petals, I would have no qualms using them in a life or death situation. Rock on Federal... Rock on...
180 gr PDX1, 155 gr Magtech Guardian Gold, ??? gr Gold Dot, and 155 gr handloaded XTP
And these, ahhhh, faggetaboudit... Just here to take up space....LOL These I shot at the left over jugs at the range and have no data for them. Except I will commenton the Magtech bullet, upper right hand corner. I shot this thing, and it literally, shot a jet of water straight back at me. A ten foot jet of water right back between the eyes... Surprised the hell out of me... LOL
BG
Okay, for the thoughts... Testing was at 10 feet both bare and with 4-layers of denim, and bare shots at 25 yards. Weapon: Glock 22
Here are 165 gr. Federal HST (P40HST3):
These were goingto be my original carry ammo, because just looking at the energy diffference between the 180 gr load and the 165 gr load (408 ft-lbs vs. 468 ft-lbs) I though that it was going to be a great load, and probably still is. But the expansion was nowhere near what the 180's had. Penetration was consistent with the 180's, but I like the bigger flowers. The one on the right is the bare shot, the one on top is the denim shot. The upside down bullet is the 25 yard shot and still performed like the other two. Great load... Average expansion was only .700". A hundred-thousandths off the advertised "double the original diameter" claim. Penetration was around 12" for all loads, avereaged.
165 gr Winchester Ranger T-Series (RA40TA)
This was my second choice for carry, as I do prefer the 165 gr loads, but the same issue with the HSTs, didnt expand enough. Energy transfer was, though, quite impressive. The first jugs usually were split down the center and splayed out like a sacrifice. The top right bullet was the bare shot, and the one on the left was the denim shot. Bottom bullet was the 25 yard shot. Expansion was great during all tests (.775") but I measured over the exposed lead areas, but when measured over the talons, average expansion jumped to .825". Penetration was also nice, hovering around 13.5" for all bulets. Great load...
180 gr Winchester Ranger T-Series (RA40T)
Winchester has always made a fine Ranger line of ammunition. This load is no exception. The one on the bottom is the bare shot at 10 feet. Expansion was .825" over the exposed lead. The talons were pushed further back, to .770", but just looking at the design, I dont think there would be anyways that the talons were not going to be in play somehow, someway. But the kicker is the denim shots. Most of them opened up nicely, but occasionally I would have a non-expansion issue. This is not the first time I've had this issue with Ranger ammunition. 9mm+p, 40 S&W or the 45ACP stuff. This one shed one side of the jacket at the nose, but the other side was completely intact, but did show sepereation of the skives proving that it was trying to expand. The ones that did expand were around .725". The 25 yard shot on top averaged around .800" Penetration averaged around 13". Great load, just was hoping that I wouldnt have had the non-expansion issues. I would still carry it though, if I was out of my HSTs...
180 gr Federal HST in LEO packaging (P40HST1)
Ahhh... Hello HST! These are the 180 gr HSTs in the pretty LEO packaging and nickle cases. This is my carry load of choice. Bare shot at 10 feet yeilded an expanded bullet around .850" and just a perfect mushroom. That would be the bottom bullet. The one on the left is the denim shot, it was .750". Still impressive... The 25 yard shot was .760". Penetration was 13.5"+ for every shot. I say '+' because I had some that were around 16". But most hovered around 12.5-14.5"
180 gr Federal HST in white box packaging (XM40HC)
Now, I've been reading online that these are not factory seconds, an overrun of an order, yada, yada, yada. Well, now time for my opinion. I bought these just to see if they were the same bullet. On initial inspection, yes, it is the same bullet, just loaded up in plain Jane brass cases. But... When I started to look at the bullet itself, thats when I started noticing something. The skives on the side of the bullet are in fact, deeper and longer, about .015" longer. Conversing with my dad, I stated that maybe they had something throughout the bullet making process out of line. But also noted that they were going to expand more, if not come apart. This is all being discussed on our way back from Cabela's in Ft. Worth. I get home, start stuffing newspaper into jugs, which if you havent done it, is a long time consuming process. On the order of one whole day stuffing 40 jugs even employing the kids to help... Anyways... The first shot I make comfirmed my suspicions. The first bullet on the right is the bare 10 foot shot. Averaging it out, it was .865" for that one bullet, and thats even measuring the side without a petal and the largest side, largest diameter was .940". Losing the petal I thought maybe a fluke, but HA HA!, it wasnt. Every shot, every bullet shed one petal. This is out of 10 shots guys, every single one of them...lost a petal. The shot through denim surprised me though. It still managed a .750" average, even missing a petal! Largest diameter was .875". The 25 yard shot, the same thing, average of .870", even with a petal missing. Another thing I noticed though, penetration was straight and didnt notice any bullet yaw at all. In my opinion, Federal knew they screwed up, had a crap load of HST bullets lying around that they couldnt sell as LEO, and decided 'HEY! We can sell these to the civilian market! They're buying our stuff anyways, why the hell not?!" Even though they shed the petals, I would have no qualms using them in a life or death situation. Rock on Federal... Rock on...
180 gr PDX1, 155 gr Magtech Guardian Gold, ??? gr Gold Dot, and 155 gr handloaded XTP
And these, ahhhh, faggetaboudit... Just here to take up space....LOL These I shot at the left over jugs at the range and have no data for them. Except I will commenton the Magtech bullet, upper right hand corner. I shot this thing, and it literally, shot a jet of water straight back at me. A ten foot jet of water right back between the eyes... Surprised the hell out of me... LOL
BG
