Disarmed by the Police

[Jon Payne]

Yep. Been one since 1992, and been a Texas Peace Officer since 1996. :meh:

Been one since 1988, been a Texas Peace Officer since 2000.

 

[diesel1959]

What law or Case Law allows him to search and seize, since is not investigating a crime?

Probable Cause is built bit by bit. The probable cause for the stop was based upon the Traffic Code. If, as I hypothecated, there had been the smell of marijuana emanating from inside the vehicle upon making contact with the driver, then there is new probable cause--that there is a violation involving possession/use of marijuana. I'm not saying that's what was what happening in the situation that Jon Payne laid out, but I'm saying that probable cause builds upon itself based upon what happens during the course of the contact and colloquy between the driver and the officer.

 

[robertc1024]

The deputy was entirely within his rights and within the law. The deputy electing to take this path is NOT an indictment of anything your friend did before or during the traffic stop, so you can shut off that train of thought right now. Doing a serial number check on the firearm is not a 4th Amendment violation either, just as it's not a 4th Amendment violation to run a license plate and then check it with the VIN plate on the vehicle during the course of a traffic stop.

The deputy's actions were not an attack on lawfully-armed citizens. I'm glad your friend cooperated.

However, the license plate and VIN are readily visible from outside the car, the firearm serial number is not - at least until he disarmed the driver. Seems a little different to me.

 

[diesel1959]

However, the license plate and VIN are readily visible from outside the car, the firearm serial number is not - at least until he disarmed the driver. Seems a little different to me.

There is Supreme Court case law that permits the officer to enter the car, move things on the dash out of the way, and view the obscured VIN plate, as there is no 4th Amendment privacy right in the VIN of a vehicle.

 

[Renegade]

Probable Cause is built bit by bit. The probable cause for the stop was based upon the Traffic Code.

You pulled me over for broken license plate light. What allows you to search my car and seize a gun from my car absent anything else.

 

[robertc1024]

There is Supreme Court case law that permits the officer to enter the car, move things on the dash out of the way, and view the obscured VIN plate, as there is no 4th Amendment privacy right in the VIN of a vehicle.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[diesel1959]

You pulled me over for broken license plate light. What allows you to search my car and seize a gun from my car absent anything else.

The OP stated "search". The officer may very well have only checked within the "wingspan", which is permissible without a warrant and without further probable cause. That's supported by Supreme Court case law. Furthermore, you do realize, I hope, that most all violations of the traffic code (not including speeding and a couple others) are actually instanterable offenses; therefore, if the officer makes the decision to instanter the driver based upon the traffic code violation alone, the officer is permitted to conduct an inventory of the vehicle before having it towed for safekeeping purposes. Any contraband found during that inventory is fair game for additional charges being filed. Just saying.

Beyond that, I wasn't there.

 

[Renegade]

The OP stated "search". The officer may very well have only checked within the "wingspan", which is permissible without a warrant and without probable cause.

Interesting. I had no idea a vehicle could be searched for guns without reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

 

[Frank59]

Interesting. I had no idea a vehicle could be searched for guns without reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

That's why you should do more reading and less posting!

 

[Jon Payne]

The OP stated "search". The officer may very well have only checked within the "wingspan", which is permissible without a warrant and without further probable cause. That's supported by Supreme Court case law. Furthermore, you do realize, I hope, that most all violations of the traffic code (not including speeding and a couple others) are actually instanterable offenses; therefore, if the officer makes the decision to instanter the driver based upon the traffic code violation alone, the officer is permitted to conduct an inventory of the vehicle before having it towed for safekeeping purposes. Any contraband found during that inventory is fair game for additional charges being filed. Just saying.

Beyond that, I wasn't there.

Please show me where I stated the vehicle was searched.


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[Renegade]

That's why you should do more reading and less posting!

The only reason you are reading it is cause I posted questions asking!

 

[diesel1959]

Interesting. I had no idea a vehicle could be searched for guns without reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

It would NOT be appropriate to search the entire vehicle. This is where precision is important on the part of officers in their reports, courts in their decisions, and citizens in their discussions of same. When one says "search", that generally means a pretty thorough, in-depth investigation. Compare this to a "frisk"--whether it be to a pedestrian or to a vehicle during a stop. Frisk generally doesn't mean going into pockets, but more of a "patting down" to feel for contraband and/or weapons. Frisking a vehicle involves checking within the occupant's wingspan, as they would have nearly immediate access to a weapon within such reach. Also, an "inventory" is not a "search". It's conducted like a search; however, it is done specifically for the purpose of identifying and documenting the property contained within the vehicle and the condition of same with the view towards safekeeping of same for the owner/occupants benefit.

 

[Renegade]

It would NOT be appropriate to search the entire vehicle. This is where precision is important on the part of officers in their reports, courts in their decisions, and citizens in their discussions of same. When one says "search", that generally means a pretty thorough, in-depth investigation. Compare this to a "frisk"--whether it be to a pedestrian or to a vehicle during a stop. Frisk generally doesn't mean going into pockets, but more of a "patting down" to feel for contraband and/or weapons. Frisking a vehicle involves checking within the occupant's wingspan, as they would have nearly immediate access to a weapon within such reach.

OK if you are saying this a Terry Frisk that I understand.

 

[diesel1959]

Please show me where I stated the vehicle was searched.


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I apologize--I just went back to your first post and you did not mention the vehicle having been searched.

But I still maintain that having disarmed the driver, the deputy was within the law when he took the weapon back to the patrol unit and ran it for stolen. That was NOT a 4th Amendment violation.

 

[diesel1959]

OK if you are saying this a Terry Frisk that I understand.

yeah, the Terry frisk can extend to vehicles. Also, the "automobile exception" to the 4th Amendment is a very complex and interesting area of the law. There are twists and turns at every corner.

 

[easy rider]

WOW, I went from being pulled over for a routine traffic violation to smoking pot and having my vehicle towed, this sucks!

 

[easy rider]

Seriously though, if an officer pulls me over, takes my gun and tells me he wants check to see if it's stolen, I say BS, show me where that's legal.

 

[Renegade]

Seriously though, if an officer pulls me over, takes my gun and tells me he wants check to see if it's stolen, I say BS, show me where that's legal.

Time to switch to Polymer80!

Seriously though, this is why I keep my car clean from view of anything that did not come from the factory...

 

[easy rider]

Time to switch to Polymer80!

Seriously though, this is why I keep my car clean from view of anything that did not come from the factory...

Huh? Are you high?

 

[Renegade]

Huh? Are you high?

Never been terry frisked, you decide.