Do you counts your shots?

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Do you count your shots?

I was thinking about this lately, I remember being trained to count shots (revolver) so you anticipate reloading at a faster rate, and not telegraphing to the BG your empty with a "CLICK". I still find myself counting, and I like to see if I am flinching at the end of a mag. But what happens if a true self defense scenerio comes into play (luckely I never had it happen), am I going to be slower because of counting, or is the training engrained, and am I going to concentrate on what I need to do. What do you do?

 

[SIG_Fiend]

NEVER COUNT. You never will in a gunfight. Concentrate on firing as fast as you possibly can while still seeing the sights when possible (obviously you won't if it's retention fire) and while keeping a decent amount of accuracy. Doing anything else is only going to slow you down. Trying to confirm your hits (switching focus back and forth from sights to the target after each shot) will slow you down too. Just focus on using your sights (where possible) as your gas pedal and run the gun as fast as possible.

One thing you might try, to break yourself of the habit, is use a negative target. Basically take a silhouette target and cut the center out of it about pie plate size or so. Then just focus on shooting as fast as you possibly can while keeping all the shots inside the circle, and do this at a distance of say 7yds and in. This will help you see the sights more, you will be unable to "confirm your hits" on the target, and it will kind of free your mind somewhat to focus more on just running the gun fast. To give you an idea on speed, being able to shoot 3 or 4 rounds per second while maintaining a decent degree of accuracy is a good goal. Shooting fast is where proper technique, grip, upper body stance, etc become a lot more important.

 

[majormadmax]

100% agreed, people tend to focus on the wrong things when "training" (I put that in quotes as most of the time they aren't really doing so); speed and accuracy are the only things that matter and with that I am talking about hitting anywhere on the target as much and as fast as possible! Beyond that, I would recommend firing offhand to ensure you are able to do so; but anything else goes beyond the basic skills that anyone would need in most self-defense situations...

Cheers! M2

 

[Dawico]

I have to disagree with you guys here. Now, I don't have much formal training and have never been in a gunfight, so take my opinion for what it is. The key to training is to ingrain all the small things in fighting into the back of your mind so you don't have to think about them in a high stress situation. I want to know when I will run dry without having to count in my head. That is the key to training. I do count, but I don't have to think about it while I am shooting. I get a feel for when the mag is almost empty. I would rather reload with a round in the chamber and a couple in the mag than make a move and be surprised by an empty gun after one shot. I think it becomes subconscious when you train that way, and you won't have to think about it under stress.

 

[CanTex]

Sorry to say I disagree with the group. If you count your shots as an ingrained part of your training it will not be something else you have to do. It will be automatic. Should you need to reload, having the knowledge that the gun, or the mag is near empty will assist in your thought process, is it time to stop pulling the trigger? is it time to advance toward target? is it time to look for cover to reload and re-engage.

Dropping a mag with a couple shots left is ok, pushing the extractor on the revolver and having an unfired round hit the floor while you put in your speedloader, also ok. Telegraphing that you are out of ammo with a click or two... not so much. I was always trained to count the shots and change the mag whenever possible, before it runs dry.

However, This was my training, I have never had to live it in a one vs one or on vs many situation. It just adds a discussion point.

 

[double_r76]

Sorry to say I disagree with the group. >snip<

I was always trained to count the shots and change the mag whenever possible, before it runs dry.

However, This was my training, I have never had to live it in a one vs one or on vs many situation. It just adds a discussion point.

CanTex, out of curiousity, where did you receive training where they taught you to count shots?

Thanks,
-Randy

 

[San Antone RR]

OK. How many police shooting AARs have we seen. MANY time I have read the LEOs empty mags and when asked say they believed they fired far less than a full mag. I'm thinking in competition that counting would be advantageous, but when someone is shooting at me and I am busy soiling my shorts, finding cover and returning fire, counting rounds will be the last thing on my mind.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Texas42]

I have trouble counting past five (have to take my other hand off my gun). Unless the bad guy catches me with my shoes off, I'll have a hard time counting to 15. All I have is mag #1 (bad day), Mag #2 (really friggin bad day) and Mag #3 (&^$*^$)

 

[Mikewood]

There is a given level of pressure you need to supply in a situation. Sometimes a look or word is enough to stop an encounter from turning violent. Sometimes you need to use force or deadly force. When that comes you have movement, cover and platform to worry about. There is not much time to think about counting shots Esp in a dynamic environment. You have to load when you can and when you are behind cover. You can't count shots or even anticipate % full. This is where IDPA gets it wrong. They stage reloads. In a real fight the time to reload may be after two rounds. You have to go to real shooting schools and realistically train to learn this.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

With some experience, yes, some of the time you can have a general idea whether you are close to running dry if you are in the middle of a shot string. This is not necessarily reliable, and not something you should ever count on. The number of malfunctions and unexpected occurrences that can occur are endless. Imagine grappling with someone on the ground that is fighting you with everything they've got to take your gun and kill you with it. Counting rounds is the last thing that is gonna be going through your mind. I would seek out some training from some good instructors that have more real world experience, as it might be a bit enlightening. There are a lot of excellent instructors here in Texas that have a good amount of real world experience, which can teach us all some extremely costly life lessons about this sort of stuff.

 

[TexasRedneck]

umm....okay, BTDT - and I gotta say that I knew how many rounds I'd expended. Hopefully I'll never have to experience it again to be able to tell you if I could repeat it - but I can tell you that at the range I try NOT to "count", since a 1911 will let ya know when it needs feedin'.

Now, the AR's and Uzi mags all have 2 tracers as the 5th and 4th to last rounds....

 

[zembonez]

OK. Right or wrong.

I don't consciously count rounds but I'm rarely surprised when the mag is empty. It seems intuitive to just "feel" when I'm at or near the end of a mag. I can see where counting could cost you valuable time in a life or death situation.

 

[Texas1911]

Anyone that shoots competition without gaming the string can tell you that you'll go through ammo twice as fast as you perceive. That slide seems to lock back pretty regularly, and you should spend more of your focus on what counts ... and counting ammo isn't it. In a gun fight you really should be doing one of three things; moving, shooting, and reloading. If you aren't moving, then you're shooting, if you aren't shooting, then you're topping off.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

If you do it, and do it fast and well, then I guess that's just your way.
But it sure seems counter-intuitive to me and several others on here.

To say nothing of the fact that if you haven't hit the bad guy even once after emptying one cylinder or magazine, then counting shots isn't going to help you much either.

 

[double_r76]

Some people have mentioned competition. I plan stages and count rounds in IDPA and USPSA. Those are games, and I want to win.

However, I've never counted rounds during any of the force-on-force training I've done, ever. You can't plan for stages in force-on-force training or real-world encounters, so counting rounds doesn't do you any good. If I've got a reason to shoot, then I'm going to be shooting... round count be damned. You either shoot to slide lock, or you shoot to a lull in the action. Either of these is a good time to reload.

I would say that a NSR thrown in after some shots is a good way to create that lull in the action if you feel like you should reload.

Good luck,
-Randy

PS - CanTex, thanks for the PM, I appreciate the info.

 

[GPtwins]

When I'm at the range, I count my shots. I count my buddies shots. It is built-in for me to do so. Will I count in a fire fight? I have no idea and it is of no consequence to me. If you want to count your shots at the range, go ahead. Do what feels right to you. You do not need to justify you practice routines to us.


-Glen, Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[zfields]

shoot till your empty, reload, shoot some more.