Exercise your Constitutional Right??

[Texas42]

I don't really think that the majority of our Government of the people is that gun shy... only that the media proudly struts the ones that are gun shy... on the boob tube to make it look that way. In reality, the majority of the government of the people are afraid of the illegitimate government of the elite and how their cronies in the media will react toward gun owners... and, yes, the licensing is a sort of blanket program for the masses. I like the fact that people get involved by attending the CHL program and the NRA programs that I present. However, I am concerned that many of them do it for the wrong reasons. Many of them think it is really cool to have that license, as well as, think it is a way of exercising their constitutional right. What they need to be thinking is that they should be learning to use a gun properly in order to protect their right to be a free people.

. . . .

Most of the people I know are gun shy. My wife (before we were married) took quite a bit of transitioning and serious conversation as to why I wanted to have guns, why I wanted to carry them, and why they would be loaded. Most of my co workers know that I love guns, but they would be shocked if they knew that I carried a gun most of the time. They'd be in sharp disagreement with me with wanting to own an AR. They give me, "you can't be serious" look when I ask them to go shooting.

I think at least half of Americans, even those that aren't in favor of gun control, wouldn't mind another AWB simply because they don't own one and don't know why someone would want to. I think that AR's are becoming more popular and are becoming more accepted in the general gun community, but they haven't always been so.

What I'm saying is that in my experience, a majority of Americans are either anti- or apathetic. They don't want people to have scary rifles. They don't want to see people with guns strapped to their hips, and they have an inaccurate mental picture of the capabilities and danger of a modern rifle.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

Oddly enough, I think you actually made my point. Are you even listening to what you are typing above? And, no... the CHL is not an infringement of our rights as we are not required to have a license or pay a fee to exercise that right... That too was pointed out in previous post. I can see that this will be more painful than originally anticipated. Well, at least you are willing to converse. For that, I thank you.

And what point was that?

Painful? I'm so sorry. I didn't realize we were in the presence of precocious genius. Let me relieve your pain...

You're stating your opinion on our right to keep and bear arms as enumerated by the 2nd Amendment and supported by the Texas State Constitution as though is it established fact. Constitutional scholars hotly debate these concepts, but you seem to have them nailed down. Impressive! Personally, I believe the right to keep and bear arms extends beyond the home. The phrase "with a view to prevent crime" has been stretched and twisted to deprive law abiding citizens of their right to carry outside the home under the pretense of curbing crime, despite the fact that we can cite countless examples supporting the contention that arming law abiding citizens actually has a positive effect on crime.

I do, however, appreciate your unadulterated condescension. When it comes to garnering support, you are, indeed, a master. You've lost my support simply due to your arrogant attitude.

Enjoy the debate.

 

[cuate]

The complete posts above are informative but I will state that an Uncle brought me back a pistol from Germany following WWII and I packed that thing from the time I was 14...Never pulled it on anybody, never robbed anybody and only used it one time when a car load of zombies were threatening the lives of me and the occupants of my vehicle. I don't think there were any casualties on the zombie side but they departed. Than I carried as a Marine and later as a LEO, and following that I always carried at least in the car so when CHLs became available I went that route to become legal. During all of the old days carrying I was never searched, never arrested, and never had my various pistols confiscated. But I usually behaved and ran with a pretty decent crowd. So, in summation I could care less if the Feds or the State knows that I am armed, where I live, etc. How do some of the boys say it ? Molon Labe ? Come and get it !!!

 

[Texan2]

And what point was that?

Painful? I'm so sorry. I didn't realize we were in the presence of precocious genius. Let me relieve your pain...

You're stating your opinion on our right to keep and bear arms as enumerated by the 2nd Amendment and supported by the Texas State Constitution as though is it established fact. Constitutional scholars hotly debate these concepts, but you seem to have them nailed down. Impressive! Personally, I believe the right to keep and bear arms extends beyond the home. The phrase "with a view to prevent crime" has been stretched and twisted to deprive law abiding citizens of their right to carry outside the home under the pretense of curbing crime, despite the fact that we can cite countless examples supporting the contention that arming law abiding citizens actually has a positive effect on crime.

I do, however, appreciate your unadulterated condescension. When it comes to garnering support, you are, indeed, a master. You've lost my support simply due to your arrogant attitude.

Enjoy the debate.

 

[tomharkness]

And what point was that?

Painful? I'm so sorry. I didn't realize we were in the presence of precocious genius. Let me relieve your pain...

You're stating your opinion on our right to keep and bear arms as enumerated by the 2nd Amendment and supported by the Texas State Constitution as though is it established fact. Constitutional scholars hotly debate these concepts, but you seem to have them nailed down. Impressive! Personally, I believe the right to keep and bear arms extends beyond the home. The phrase "with a view to prevent crime" has been stretched and twisted to deprive law abiding citizens of their right to carry outside the home under the pretense of curbing crime, despite the fact that we can cite countless examples supporting the contention that arming law abiding citizens actually has a positive effect on crime.

I do, however, appreciate your unadulterated condescension. When it comes to garnering support, you are, indeed, a master. You've lost my support simply due to your arrogant attitude.

Enjoy the debate.

Once again: Projectionism is a nasty little fella... but understandable for someone that has no other way to compete in the arena of ideas. Thank you for playing.

 

[tomharkness]

The complete posts above are informative but I will state that an Uncle brought me back a pistol from Germany following WWII and I packed that thing from the time I was 14...Never pulled it on anybody, never robbed anybody and only used it one time when a car load of zombies were threatening the lives of me and the occupants of my vehicle. I don't think there were any casualties on the zombie side but they departed. Than I carried as a Marine and later as a LEO, and following that I always carried at least in the car so when CHLs became available I went that route to become legal. During all of the old days carrying I was never searched, never arrested, and never had my various pistols confiscated. But I usually behaved and ran with a pretty decent crowd. So, in summation I could care less if the Feds or the State knows that I am armed, where I live, etc. How do some of the boys say it ? Molon Labe ? Come and get it !!!

Someone after my own heart. This is someone that understands my concepts to a much better extent... thank you. As for the "I went that route to become legal"... That is a point of contention with me as it was legal [by constitutional standards] in the first place. Our leaders have confused the truth so much that many of us believe that the CHL is what made it legal. That is the point of my post. We need to work on our perception of the program in that regard. The CHL did not make it legal... it only changed the rules on how Local Law Enforcement can engage us on the issue... publicly making it more acceptable and providing a greater legal defense in our behalf.... but be well warned that there are still some LEO's that have nothing but contempt for the idea and program.

As for the rest, I too believe: "I don't care if the Feds or State know I have it... its not any of their business anyway!" I have my CHL because I want to be a part of a movement to send a clear and loud voice to these leaders.... "I'm not hiding it... come and get it !!!!"

 

[Texan2]

I dont care to engage in some long drawn out dialogue, but it is their business to the extent they decide it is their business (i dont agree or like that setup but it is the one we have). The only way to get what you want is through the halls of Congress or your state legislature....this contemptuous preaching, nor an elitist attiude is going to get it done. Folks can scream all they want about the constitution from the inside of a jail cell (should they choose to violate currentlaws) and exactly zero people will be listening.

 

[tomharkness]

This, being precisely the purpose of my posts. It is not my intent to exercise my 2nd Amendment Rights by getting my CHL, but to exercise my 1st Amendment Rights by printing what I believe. I carry a gun to protect the latter. It may well appear to be "contemptuous preaching", but to me is it the right that the 2nd Amendment was designed to help protect. I have no intention of violating the law, but I do recognize that there is corruption within the system that may well call for my imprisonment regardless. In fact, it is possible that you could compel this form to deny me this right in order to prevent what you might consider "contemptuous preaching" (they do that in France). As for an elitist attitude; it is my intention to do the exact opposite by encouraging other to see the misrepresentation of the facts that are allowing for the elitist to take control without so much as a quarrel.

We have the best system in the world. The problem is that we are not using it. Instead, we have a leadership that has taken power from the people and appointed themselves to be the Government when clearly the Constitution states that we are the government and they are merely the representative of our government. Then, they further misrepresent the supreme laws of this land (Constitution) by telling us that;

1. The First Amendment that gives us the right to freedom of speech, assembly, expression, redress, and religion… really means to say that God is prohibited in our pubic schools; Then

2. The Second Amendment that allows us to “Secure a Free State” by providing a well regulated militia, and therefore the leaders cannot infringe on our rights to keep and bear arms…. Now somehow means that only standing armies that are under the command and control of the leaders should be armed; Then

3. That Health Care is a Constitutional Right and therefore should be free to all while putting salary caps of Doctors and Nurses…. While ignoring the fact that the sixth Amendment clearly provides for due process, speedy trial, and legal counsel but causes the leaders to urinate on themselves and cry “Heresy” the minute you mention free courts and salary caps on Judges and Attorneys.

Unfortunately, many are fooled into thinking that this is the system that we have and that is the way it is going to be. WRONG! That is the distortion of the system that we have and should not be allowed to continue as such.

One of the most effective ways to allow such corruption to continue to grow and infest our society is to tell those that speak up...........

........., but it is their business to the extent they decide it is their business (i dont agree or like that setup but it is the one we have). The only way to get what you want is through the halls of Congress or your state legislature....this contemptuous preaching, nor an elitist attiude is going to get it done. Folks can scream all they want about the constitution from the inside of a jail cell (should they choose to violate currentlaws) and exactly zero people will be listening.

Hint: I am not screaming from inside of a jail cell........................ yet.

 

[deputy]

Wow.........
Purty heavy reading for a tired boy from start to finish. But I'll throw in my 2 cents.........

As far as the CHL debate........

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s

We are indeed a Republic with a frame work intended to control and limit government so the majority would not trample the minority. Somehow, an attempt to enforce mob rule has been entrenched in the two party system. My only advice is vote for the man that will represent your interests/beliefs instead of for a party that wishes to control and rule. A return to the Constitution and true representation is the answer to an expanding govt that seeks restraint on the citizens.

If you do not like the way things are, then use the ballot box and start with control of the State which has more direct impact on our daily lives than the feds. Vote for U.S. representives and senators that will hold their ground and principles and not waver like chaff in the wind. As long as our representives continue to support their party over the people and the Constitution, we will continue to be driven by single issues to address the symptons instead of treating the illness that has happened in our government.

Sorry for the rant. Just a supporter for a strong 3rd party to bring balance and a level of honesty to the two party system. Will not see it in my lifetime..............

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Damn, I thought I typed long posts sometimes. Just fyi, typing E-novels like those above will lose most audiences. Clear and concise is much more effective.

 

[Texan2]

Some people can take what may be a good point to ponder and use it to completely run people out of a room.

 

[Texan2]

I think this thread has run its course

 

[deputy]

my appologies..........i'm done.

 

[Texan2]

my appologies..........i'm done.

not needed, we weren't talking about you my friend

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

Once again: Projectionism is a nasty little fella... but understandable for someone that has no other way to compete in the arena of ideas. Thank you for playing.

In denigrating me, you've simply reinforced my point. I, nor most other posters on this site, have any problem competing in the arena of ideas. What we have a problem with is someone who appears to open a discussion, but is actually baiting the board members because he firmly believes he's of superior intellect and displays this marvelous fact by belittling those who engage in the debate. When one stoops to these measures to make his point, there is no point to be made.

If you'd like to "compete in the arena of ideas" with this group, I'd suggest you stick to the issues and refrain from attacking those with whom you debate. Texas Gun Talk is not an unfriendly place, nor is it populated with a bunch of uneducated hicks. Your thread appears to be your benevolent attempt to educate the poor unwashed, and this point is further exacerbated by your "recognition" of the predictably uninformed counter-arguments.

I'm disappointed in myself for even taking the time to type this, but to suggest I, or anyone else, is simply incapable of competing (with you) in the arena of ideas is arrogant, condescending, and, quite frankly, incorrect. There are those who simply grow weary of indulging an individual who can't see beyond the tip of his own nose. I stand in admiration of those who had the self-discipline to abandon this useless activity before I.

 

[Texan2]

In denigrating me, you've simply reinforced my point. I, nor most other posters on this site, have any problem competing in the arena of ideas. What we have a problem with is someone who appears to open a discussion, but is actually baiting the board members because he firmly believes he's of superior intellect and displays this marvelous fact by belittling those who engage in the debate. When one stoops to these measures to make his point, there is no point to be made.

If you'd like to "compete in the arena of ideas" with this group, I'd suggest you stick to the issues and refrain from attacking those with whom you debate. Texas Gun Talk is not an unfriendly place, nor is it populated with a bunch of uneducated hicks. Your thread appears to be your benevolent attempt to educate the poor unwashed, and this point is further exacerbated by your "recognition" of the predictably uninformed counter-arguments.

I'm disappointed in myself for even taking the time to type this, but to suggest I, or anyone else, is simply incapable of competing (with you) in the arena of ideas is arrogant, condescending, and, quite frankly, incorrect. There are those who simply grow weary of indulging an individual who can't see beyond the tip of his own nose. I stand in admiration of those who had the self-discipline to abandon this useless activity before I.

Touche'

 

[tomharkness]

Wow.........
Purty heavy reading for a tired boy from start to finish. But I'll throw in my 2 cents.........

As far as the CHL debate........

We are indeed a Republic with a frame work intended to control and limit government so the majority would not trample the minority. Somehow, an attempt to enforce mob rule has been entrenched in the two party system. My only advice is vote for the man that will represent your interests/beliefs instead of for a party that wishes to control and rule. A return to the Constitution and true representation is the answer to an expanding govt that seeks restraint on the citizens.

If you do not like the way things are, then use the ballot box and start with control of the State which has more direct impact on our daily lives than the feds. Vote for U.S. representives and senators that will hold their ground and principles and not waver like chaff in the wind. As long as our representives continue to support their party over the people and the Constitution, we will continue to be driven by single issues to address the symptons instead of treating the illness that has happened in our government.

Sorry for the rant. Just a supporter for a strong 3rd party to bring balance and a level of honesty to the two party system. Will not see it in my lifetime..............

Excellent point: finally someone that can reply without a "rules for radicals" tongue lashing. We have a big problem with our society in that we are inundated with bad media that suppresses the truth about those running for office and continually misleads us with distractions and distortion.

Forums like this bring hope that they might help us bypass that obfuscation and bring light to the truth. Unfortunately, this too becomes useless once the power-grab is converted from one elitist to another. We must vote to continue the security and stability of the Nation as a whole; but to do so uninformed and mislead may well be worse than not to vote at all. To belittle and impugn others that you do not wish to compete with in their arena of ideas is one way to prevent ideas from being presented. This allows ignorance to reign and rule.

I see that I have offended more than I have encouraged.... therefore, you win. I will stop.

 

[Vellcrow]

...this point is further exacerbated by your "recognition" of the predictably uninformed counter-arguments.

Sorry. I could not resist.