Federal Ammo primer pockets

[OLDVET]

I need to rehash a subject. I think I saw a discussion on here some time ago concerning Federal using small primers for their .45 ACP ammo. I can't locate it now, so I will repost the inquiry.
I recently purchased a case and 1/2 of Federal .45ACP ammo from Cabela's. After I got it home, I remembered Federal is now using smaller primers on their .45 ACP ammo. What are people using to reload this brass? I figure small pistol primers may not be sufficient in power to properly ignite the powder in a .45ACP load. I wonder if the small rifle primers may be too much ignition. I currently use 5.6 grains of Winchester 231, various brands of large pistol primers, and 200 grain Oregan Trail Laser Cast bullets for my reloads. I have several thousand each of large pistol primers and small rifle primers. I use RCBS universal hand primers to prime my cases. I have one set up for large primers and one for small primers, so I do not have to change my reloading gear to switch primer sizes. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[TexasRedneck]

You're gonna hate my reply....but I'd go straight to Federal on this. I'd think that the SP primers will, in fact, do the job just fine - but I'd double-check w/them first.

 

[OLDVET]

Tried Federal. All you get is their pre-recorder message saying that they are unable to answer the call at this time and if you leave your name and phone number thay will get back in touch with you at a later date. I am not holding my breath. The guys at Cabela's recommened using the Winchester Small Magnum Pistol primers. Of course when I asked for the reloading department, the operator transferred me to the back of the warehouse!!

 

[OLDVET]

I talked a Ballistics guy at Sierra Bullets concerning this topic. He said he had heard about the Federal brass, but he had not worked with any of it as of yet. He asked what powder I was using, and then said the Small Pistol Primers would work fine. Still looking for hands on experience with this topic.

 

[hogrider]

I suspect (but I hope I'm wrong for your sake) that Federal will say don't reload them. That's what Winchester told me with theirs.

 

[Texas1911]

I suspect (but I hope I'm wrong for your sake) that Federal will say don't reload them. That's what Winchester told me with theirs.

+1 ... Winchester SP .45 brass has a resized flash hole that uses a special "green" primer and Winchester had said that the flash hole change could greatly alter the burn properties. They also said that the "green" primers were slightly off-sized compared to the normal primers.

This is on their WinClean brand of .45 ammo I believe.

 

[woolleyworm]

I use Winchester SPP's and have no problems with them. No noticeable difference to me; but across the screens, it shows about a 30 fps loss with the SPP's.

 

[skinman]

I talked a Ballistics guy at Sierra Bullets concerning this topic. He said he had heard about the Federal brass, but he had not worked with any of it as of yet. He asked what powder I was using, and then said the Small Pistol Primers would work fine. Still looking for hands on experience with this topic.

I have reloaded many Federal, Blazer, and Speer small primer pocket .45 acp brass with CCI small pistol primers using my usual 5.0 - 5.3 gr. W231 and 230 gr. FMJ ball @2.55 in. OAL. No noticeable difference with performance. Just sort them out after cleaning and polishing and change to the small primer disk on the Lee Classic Turret. No big deal.

 

[OLDVET]

Thanks for the information. I plan to load 300 to 400 normal rounds tonight. I have a supply of the CCI Small Pistol primers, so I will load a box of the Fedral brass and see what happens.

 

[Texas1911]

BTW, rifle primers will work in a pinch, but you better be using them on a 1911 or something with a hell of a hammer behind it. The cups are alot thicker.

Alot of IPSC shooters will load 9mm Major with SRPs to prevent primer blowout.

 

[OLDVET]

Okay, here is the low down on this straight from Federal. A guy named Don Davis with Federal called me. He said any small pistol primer will work in their small pistol primer pockets. It seems Federal is producing .45 ACP ammo in two different locations. He talked to me about a recall by Federal concerning ammo with steel primer caps. He said any .45 ACP ammo with small pistol primers manfactured by their Idaho plant did not fall under the recall and was safe to shoot. Any .45 ammo with shiny steel primers needed to be checked by lot numbers.

 

[Texasjack]

I talked to Hodgdon about reloading those 'green' .45's with small primers. Their advice was to throw the brass away. The tech there said that these rounds use a special powder and the primer hole is larger. Hodgdon had some concern that common reloading powders wouldn't behave as normally expected.

Now, BEFORE I managed to get ahold of Hodgdon, I did reload a few rounds using Titegroup and they seemed to work OK.

 

[OLDVET]

I can gaurantee the primer hole in the Federal brass I have is not larger than a Winchester case! The flash hole in the Federal brass I have is more like a CCI case. It is a small hole. The Federal guy who returned my phone call yesterday told me the primer pocket on their .45 ACP with the small primer pocket is exactly the same diameter and depth as a small pistol primer from any manufacturer. He assured me the small pistol primer would function the same as a larger primer with the powder I use reloading. I lean toward believing the guy from the ammo manufacturer more than from a guy who is involved with making the powder.
The guy who runs our local reloading supply store [Southwest Ammo in Mesquite, Texas] tells me he thinks it is just a conspiracy to make everyone buy more ammo.
I assume there is probably going to be some small differences in the ballaitics when using a smaller primer on the .45 bullet, but for the average guy who shoots holes in paper at the pistol range they should be okay. I meant to ask the Federal guy why they switched the primer size, but I forgot. I am really curious now.
Side note: I read that Hodgdon is making all of the powders for Winchester these days.

 

[Texasjack]

... I read that Hodgdon is making all of the powders for Winchester these days.

Hodgdon has owned Winchester and IMR (the old DuPont assets) for several years.

IMHO, the cartridge manufacturer is more likely to tell you his ammo is just as good as it was with a different primer, but the powder manufacturer wants you to reload (using powder you bought from that company) and will only advise against it if there's a problem.

What may be different here is if Federal is using the small primers on regular loads. Hodgdon was addressing the "green" (no lead in bullet or primer) ammo which uses the small primer because it's a different composition than the regular ones. Maybe Federal is starting to switch to the 'unleaded' primers in some of their cartridges with lead bullets.

 

[OLDVET]

I contacted a reloading tech. at Hodgdon. He said using small pistol primers with the small primer pocketed .45 ACP brass would be okay. He said there is no safety issues doing this, but he couldn't qaurantee what kind of performance one would get from a load designed for a large pistol primer. He recommended loading a few test rounds prior to loading a large amount. He said they get numerous inquiries each week on this subject and they give the same recommendations to callers. No one has called back with complaints. He also said the ammo manufacturers are getting a lot of heat due to the lead in their primers. Smaller primers - less lead.