Firearm transfer question

[wgsigs]

I may have missed it, but can an Arkansas FFL transfer guns to a Texas (out-of-state) resident? Isn't that like selling a gun to an out-of-state resident, which I believe is against federal law. Edit: I see Bithabus has posted it - item (5).

If it can somehow be proven that the guns were bequeathed to the OP, then he can drive up and just bring them back. If not, then it's my understanding that his grandmother will have to send the guns to a Texas FFL to perform the transfer. It is up to his grandmother if she wants to use an FFL on her end to save on shipping. Long guns can be shipped by an individual using USPS. Handguns can only be shipped via USPS by and FFL. An individual has to use a common carrier like UPS or Fed-Ex, whose policies usually require expensive over-night service, to ship handguns.

 

[SC-Texas]

And if you want to get technical about it, it would be perfectly legal since his died died intestate (that means no will for those of you . . . ) and he, as his dad's son, is the legal heir.

Therefore, even under federal law (see that part about intestatacy conveniently posted by Bitahaus), the OP could simpoly go pick the firearms up and bring them home to Texas.

 

[SC-Texas]

except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State

There ya go.

Dad dies intestate.

The child is the heir to dad's estate.

OP needs to go pick his firearms up. No FFL.

 

[nalioth]

I may have missed it, but can an Arkansas FFL transfer guns to a Texas (out-of-state resident)? Isn't that like selling a gun to an out-of-state resident, which I believe is against federal law.

Under Texas law, you can buy a long gun from any FFL in the United States. I am not aware of Arkansas having any state laws that would restrict transfers of long guns to out-of-staters by its FFLs.

If not, then it's my understanding that his grandmother will have to send the guns to a Texas FFL to perform the transfer. It is up to his grandmother if she wants to use an FFL on her end to save on shipping. Long guns can be shipped by an individual using USPS. Handguns can only be shipped via USPS by and FFL. An individual has to use a common carrier like UPS or Fed-Ex, whose policies usually require expensive over-night service, to ship handguns.

This last paragraph depends on the existence of handguns in the collection.

There are no savings in having a local FFL ship long guns to another FFL - in fact, it's more expensive to do it this way.

 

[Jthrock]

That's where I am confused... It seems that law is saying they can't give them to me if they know I live out of state. Does a 4473 form change that?

 

[SC-Texas]

What is unclear about this?

The OP is the legal heir to his dad's intestate estate.

 

[nalioth]

What is unclear about this?

The OP is the legal heir to his dad's intestate estate.

The wife owns the firearms if the husband dies intestate (joint property).


I'm unpleasantly surprised at all the lawbreaking advice being given in this thread.

Making decisions based on emotion (as opposed to those based on fact) will get one thrown in jail.

 

[Jthrock]

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

Ok, I get it... If it is a rifle or a shotgun, I can have her "sell" me the guns in Arkansas, by taking her and the guns to an FFL dealer and filling out 4473s on all of them. Then I can legally drive them back to Texas. However, if I find any handguns in the collection, I will have to have her transfer them from an FFL in AR to an FFL in TX. Is this right?

 

[TangoUniform]

I would go get my Dad's weapons from my mom or grandmom and not involve anyone.

That's the way I would do it.

+1000


Your mother as the executor has the right to transfer the weapons to you unless prohibited by state probate laws. If it was your father's wishes it does not necessarily have to have been written but it all depends on the state laws. Documentation by a probate attorney would solve that if your concerned.

My understanding is NFA weapons do have special requirements and have to be reported.

From the NRA site (emphasis added): NRA-ILA ::

"
[SIZE=+1]Sales Between Individuals[/SIZE]
An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence."

 

[matefrio]

So, my understanding is you can go to the state and pick up the guns if they are yours by bequest or intestate succession.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/aprqtr/pdf/27cfr478.29.pdf

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector, shall
transport into or receive in the State
where the person resides (or if a corporation
or other business entity,
where it maintains a place of business)
any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained
by such person outside that
State: Provided, That the provisions of
this section:
(a) Shall not preclude any person who
lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest
or intestate succession in a State other
than his State of residence from transporting
the firearm into or receiving it
in that State, if it is lawful for such
person to purchase or possess such firearm
in that State,

 

[SC-Texas]

The wife owns the firearms if the husband dies intestate (joint property).


I'm unpleasantly surprised at all the lawbreaking advice being given in this thread.

Making decisions based on emotion (as opposed to those based on fact) will get one thrown in jail.

There was no wife. per the Op's post.

Therefore, the child is the heir.

 

[SC-Texas]

Let me break this down for you:

Hello everyone,

My father passed away about 15 years ago and had quite a few firearms.

my father had owned a bunch of guns.

My grandmother, who lives in arkansas, has been holding on to them all this time,

There was no will bequeathing them to me, but she wants me to have them.

Thanks,
Joe

Father dies intestate.

Son is legal heir.

Technically, the mother who may be entitled to the entire estate (if certain conditions exist), may step aside and pass (Disclaim) her share directly to the son and he is once again the legal heir.

 

[Bithabus]

There ya go.

Dad dies intestate.

The child is the heir to dad's estate.

OP needs to go pick his firearms up. No FFL.

Even after 15 years?

 

[matefrio]

Even after 15 years?

I don't see a ticking clock in the law.

 

[SC-Texas]

Further, under certain conditions of instestacy, the child may be the heir of the father's community estate.

Or, as I described above, the mother could disclaim her share of her husband's estate.

 

[SC-Texas]

Yes, even after 15 years.

The grandmother was never a legal heir to the estate of the OP's father.

 

[nalioth]

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

Ok, I get it... If it is a rifle or a shotgun, I can have her "sell" me the guns in Arkansas, by taking her and the guns to an FFL dealer and filling out 4473s on all of them. Then I can legally drive them back to Texas. However, if I find any handguns in the collection, I will have to have her transfer them from an FFL in AR to an FFL in TX. Is this right?

No.

Legally, your mom can ship the handguns to an FFL in Texas.

Realistically (and this is where all the knuckleheads get "this is the law" out of it) it's cheaper to get an FFL to send handguns, as they can legally use the US Mail to do so.

There was no wife. per the Op's post.

Therefore, the child is the heir.

What thread are you replying to?

My father passed away about 15 years ago and had quite a few firearms. I have recently started shooting with friends at the gun range for a few weekends now and have been having a blast. I had completely forgotten that my father had owned a bunch of guns until recently. My grandmother, who lives in arkansas, has been holding on to them all this time, and I would like to finally take possession of them. There was no will bequeathing them to me, but she wants me to have them. She is worried that the guns are not registered, but from what I have read they do not have to be in Arkansas or in Texas, is this correct?

Just because the OP doesn't mention a wife doesn't mean there isn't one.

Since the grandmother has the guns, there really is no way to call this 'intestate succession", and anyone telling the guy to just go up and get them is making themselves a conspirator in a federal felony.

 

[Bithabus]

I don't see a ticking clock in the law.

Not in the weapons law. But, in the case of intestate succession, I wonder if any heirs must claim the property in a "timely" fashion. Does the validity of his claim reduce because he waited 15 years to claim his property?

 

[Texas1911]

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

Ok, I get it... If it is a rifle or a shotgun, I can have her "sell" me the guns in Arkansas, by taking her and the guns to an FFL dealer and filling out 4473s on all of them. Then I can legally drive them back to Texas. However, if I find any handguns in the collection, I will have to have her transfer them from an FFL in AR to an FFL in TX. Is this right?

Once the 4473 is performed out of state the long gun can be given to you and you may go over state lines with it.

Any handguns will have to go from FFL to FFL and you'll fill out a 4473 in Texas for them.

Any NFA items you'll just be best talking to an FFL / SOT dealer regarding their transfer, or asking the ATF NFA branch for guidance if they'll give it.

I would drive up there, takes good pictures of anything valuable and document the serial numbers and condition of each item, and only then would I ship them. That way if something is damaged you have prior recent photos and documentation of their status. Any Colt SAAs and other big ticket items I'd have appraised by a certified insurance appraiser.

 

[SC-Texas]

I do not beleive it does. However, you have 4 years to start an administration or probate a will in the state of Texas.

This does not affect who the legal heirs are. That is set out in the probate code.