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  • JoeyZ

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    Feb 23, 2008
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    Has anybody got any experince with these? I would like to get one.

    FiveSeven.gif
     

    phatcyclist

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    You probably don't want one. The round is very expensive, and hard to come by. The original purpose of the round was armor penetrating possibilities. It can do this because of it's velocity, and the fact that it is pointy. The round is very similar to a .22 Hornet. I would think there are many better choices for defensive purposes. I know little about the pistols, aside from the fact that the grip is very long front-to-back. The pistol is very large in most dimensions.

    What exactly is drawing you to this particular pistol?
     
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    Feb 23, 2008
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    While 5.7x28 is a very small cartridge and it's not cheap, but it ****s up meat in an unnatural way compared to conventional ammo. I'm not sure why it does the damage it does, but I would not want to get hit by one.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Yep, as Phatcyclist said, these guns would not do very well as a self defense gun. If you are interested in one purely because they look cool and you like them, there is certainly nothing wrong with that. :) For just general plinking it would be pretty expensive, and you might want to consider something in a more common and inexpensive caliber like 9mm or 22lr for plinking purposes.

    The whole concept behind this 5.7x28 caliber (as far as I understand it anyways) is that with all that velocity and a small pointy round you will have all this energy focused on a very small point which makes it considerably easier to penetrate through body armor. In some ways it is a similar principle to the way those window breaking devices work. As far as I understand it, that is really the only ballistic appeal to these guns. They do hold 20 rounds and they are bullets so they are still deadly however with such a small caliber you wouldn't see near the expansion of something like a 45acp or even a 9mm and because of the high velocity I believe there is also a very real possibility of over-penetration though I'm sure they make hollowpoints for them to help prevent this. From what I've seen, it appears there are various 5.7x28 loadings anywhere from 1700-2200fps. There might be some higher or lower but it seems that most types of ammo for these guns have velocities in that range.

    Joey, what is the main appeal of the gun to you? If there are certain characteristics about it that make you want one, there might be some other guns out there that share similar characteristics and would be much more economical and that you might like as well. As always, if the answer is you just like them and want one, there is nothing wrong with that and more power to you. :)
     

    Texas1911

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    FN builds a pretty good pistol, but as others have said above the gun isn't necessarily economical to shoot. One thing to consider is the availability of common ammo, and the adaptability of the pistol for what you need it to do.

    I feel 9mm is the superior carry round. This is simply my opinion. I base it primarily on the ease of control, capacity, and capability of the ammo. My second choice would be .45 ACP, followed by .357 Sig and .40 S&W. Really you can't go wrong with a standard caliber, it's all in what you feel comfortable with.
     

    JoeyZ

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    Oh, I have no real reason for wanting one. I've got my Kel-Tec .380 for carry and I'll get another S&W .357 for home defense and taget shooting. It's just that thing is sort of the Ferrari of Handguns, Exspensive, exotic, and cool looking. I remember reading about them when there were still only available to military and police. It sounded sweet. 20 rounds of high velocity shortened rifle ammo. What's not to like. Sure the bullet itself is tiny, but at the speeds it operates at, it ****s **** up. I mean hell it's the same bullet as in an M-16, just in a shorter case. I'll probably never get one, but if I come across one someday at the gun store and I've got a bunch of money burning a hole in my pocket, I may.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    If you want an expensive "Ferrari" of handguns, here's a few you might want to check out sometime:

    -H&K P9S (I have one and you are more than welcome to shoot it any time)
    -H&K P7
    -Sig P226S, P229S, P220S (S = Sport)
    -CZ75 SP-01 Custom Shop (aka Sp-01 Shadow, I believe)
    -Any Wilson Combat or Ed Brown 1911
    -Walther P99 (cheaper "Ferrari", but one of the best double stack 9's out there IMO)


    That is all I can think of off hand though there are plenty of other guns out there that fit the bill. I highly recommend checking out the HK's I mentioned, as they were built with the high performance and precision of a Porsche or Ferrari, have really light absolutely AWESOME triggers out of the box, are dead on accurate and just neat guns overall. My P9S has about a 3.0-3.5# trigger out of the box stock, and with it's polygonal fixed barrel (not a browning tilting barrel design) it is insanely accurate. Here's an excellent (but long) video on the P7:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=10&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
     

    XTPHP1

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    Has anybody got any experince with these? I would like to get one.

    I have both the European and US version. I like them The ammo isn't any more expensive than any other ammo. A box of 50 rounds run $17. A box of 20 to 50 rounds of 9mm JHP (Fed Hydro shock, Rem Ranger, CorBon)etc. runs how much?

    You can get both HP and ballistic tip rounds for about the same price. The gun with 20 rounds is LIGHT. The whole gun and mag weigh about as much as a loaded sig .45 mag.

    The gun has no kick at all. The nice thing is the PS90 (rifle) uses the same cartridge in a 50 round mag!

    I think it is a great gun to keep around. Ammo is light, effective and the down side is the ammo isn't available all over the place. If you aren't careful you will get screwed on the price of ammo.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Locally from Academy I've found 9mm Blazer Aluminum for $7.99, WWB 9mm ~$8-8.50 and you can usually get a box of 50 run of the mill JHP's from Winchester for ~$13-15 I believe. The Corbon PowRBall I like so much is usually around $19-22 I think. Ammo supply isn't too much of a big deal considering you can easily order the stuff off the internet, though in a bind going to the range at the last second it could be a bit hard to find. I'm pretty sure Cabela's always has some in stock though.
     

    Texas1911

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    I have both the European and US version. I like them The ammo isn't any more expensive than any other ammo. A box of 50 rounds run $17. A box of 20 to 50 rounds of 9mm JHP (Fed Hydro shock, Rem Ranger, CorBon)etc. runs how much?

    You can get both HP and ballistic tip rounds for about the same price. The gun with 20 rounds is LIGHT. The whole gun and mag weigh about as much as a loaded sig .45 mag.

    The gun has no kick at all. The nice thing is the PS90 (rifle) uses the same cartridge in a 50 round mag!

    I think it is a great gun to keep around. Ammo is light, effective and the down side is the ammo isn't available all over the place. If you aren't careful you will get screwed on the price of ammo.

    Cool you have one. I'd like to shoot one of these, they've always kinda been on my cool list because of the unique caliber and capacity.

    Thanks for putting up your experience with it. I might have to go look further into them.
     

    JoeyZ

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    Locally from Academy I've found 9mm Blazer Aluminum for $7.99, WWB 9mm ~$8-8.50 and you can usually get a box of 50 run of the mill JHP's from Winchester for ~$13-15 I believe. The Corbon PowRBall I like so much is usually around $19-22 I think. Ammo supply isn't too much of a big deal considering you can easily order the stuff off the internet, though in a bind going to the range at the last second it could be a bit hard to find. I'm pretty sure Cabela's always has some in stock though.
    Hmm. When I bought a box of Blazer .380 at academy it was $11. How is it that .9mm is cheaper?
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Yep, .380 has always been a bit more expensive, probably because it's a less common caliber than 9mm. .32acp is also smaller, yet more expensive than the other 2 or at the least around the same price as .380. Since 9mm is a NATO caliber and probably about the most, if not the most, common pistol caliber out there around the world. Just a couple months ago, Academy at I35 and William Cannon had 9mm Blazer Aluminum for just $6.83! ;) I think the fact that Alan and myself hit them up so many times for 9mm they caught on and jacked their price up a dollar to take advantage of "demand". ;)
     

    JoeyZ

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    Well, while at Red's Friday, I noticed they had one, so I fondled it. It's kinda weird. It does seem kinda plasticky, but not in a ****ty way. It's just real light and kind looks like a toy. The grip fits my hand well, but I have long fingers, someone with short chubby digits would have a hard time reaching the trigger. The mag looks huge, it's even got one of those little plastic forms in it that looks like a round, so you know where to shove them. The barrel looks tiny, like an air rifles. Mr Kimber thinks it looks hideous, but I still think they look cool.
     

    Kaptain Kolache

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    Mar 3, 2008
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    I wouldnt consider using this pistol, nor would I use the round.

    Dr Gary K Robeerts:

    Other than being able to perforate soft body armor, the 5.7 x 28 mm used in the FN P90, as well as the 4.6 x 30 mm fired from the HK MP7 cause wounds less incapacitating than those made by 9 mm FMJ fired from a pistol. I have personally fired the 5.7 x 28 mm FN P-90; velocity, penetration, and tissue destruction is like a .17 Hornet--far less than seen with a good 5.56 mm OTM or barrier blind JSP from 10-16” barrel carbines. Good .45 ACP 230 gr JHP’s like the Ranger Talon or HST crush more tissue and penetrate further than the 5.7 x 28 mm. Use of the 5.7 x 28 mm is a good way to ensure mission failure.

    This is not new knowledge, as several papers warned of the incredibly poor terminal performance of projectiles fired by the FN P90:

    --Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.
    --Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.
    --Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.
    --FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.
    --Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.
    --Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.

    The early 5.7 x 28 mm 23 gr FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90 had insufficient penetration for law enforcement and military use. The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

    It is all basic physics and physiology. Look at the surface areas in contact with tissue for 9 mm FMJ and JHP compared to 5.7 mm. When both are point forward, the 9 mm FMJ crushes more tissue than the 5.7 mm; for the short time that the 5.7 mm is at FULL yaw, it crushes a bit more tissue than the 9 mm FMJ. At no time does the 5.7 mm crush more tissue than the expanded 9 mm JHP--even when the 5.7 mm FMJ is at full yaw, an expanded 9 mm JHP crushes more tissue. The relatively small temporary cavities produced by both the 9 mm and 5.7 mm projectiles are not likely to cause significant injury to the majority of elastic structures of the body. As with any penetrating projectile, if either a 9 mm or 5.7 mm bullet is ideally placed to cause significant damage to the CNS or major cardiovascular organs, a fatal result is likely.

    Timmy:
    ”The 5.7 pistol as a carry gun is a mistake for all the reasons Doc stated. There are far more effective weapons and ammunition combinations out there. The only factor that comes close to equalizing the P90 (not the 5.7 pistol) is it's full auto capability: 900 rpm of very controllable fire. Even this advantage is limited to close-in, CQB type engagements. I can put more rounds on target faster with the P90 than with my M4 in close contact engagements. Unfortunately you may HAVE to put more rounds in the threat due to the lack of damage the projectile causes. We have been using 30 P90's for five years now. There have been three BG's shot with them. We will not be buying more...Using SS190 and a suppressor will lead to cracks in the frame around the barrel support lock (takedown button). This is a result of the increase in back pressure....But then between me and the guy sitting next to me right now we have only been in a couple of gunfights with them so take what I say with a grain of salt...for those still interested in listening to real world experience with the P90 and SS190 ammo. The round is far less effective than 5.56 and many other widely used defensive loads. You want to wrap your life around the 5.7/P90 system knock yourself out. I am not trying to be a dick to you but my agency has more operation experience with the system then ANY and our verdict is it is far less effective than advertised.”
     

    mac79912

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    It is nice to have a 20 round mag with these pistols.If you are going to get one do it fast.I would prefer to get something cheaper to shoot.The HKs are a great pistol and I would trust my life with them.
     

    RangeMasterTX

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    The 5.7 is a fun toy, I personaly wouldn't carry one but they do make a nice "lookit me" at the range.The mag capacity is nice and it makes a nice varmint gun I would love to get an xp-100 built into a rifle in 5.7.One note- at least the pistols that I have seen including mine stretch the hell out of the brass.HK if your going to call a p7 a ferrari then what's the uber HK the MK23 socom a mclaren? I love my 1911's like I love my jag but the 23 is THE .45
     
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