Getting Around the New Parking Lot Law???

[Jaxx]

With the new law allowing the storage of your firearm in the parking lot of your work place American Airlines in Fort Worth issued this email. I was just wondering what you guys thought? Are they actually violating the rights given us in the law or are they just violating the spirit of it? Is there any legal way they can actually check your car? Is there any action that could be taken against this new policy or just keep your mouth shut and your gun locked up? Below is a cut paste of the actual email.

Firearms on Company Property in Texas
Texas state law allows Texas based employees to store a legal firearm in their personal vehicle while
parked in a company parking lot or other parking space provided by the Company (firearms are not
permitted on any other company property, such as company buildings).
American Airlines employees that work in Texas and who choose to keep a legal firearm locked in a
personal vehicle that is parked on company parking lots or other parking spaces provided by the
company must follow these rules:
· The firearm must be stored in a locked compartment or case and out of plain sight while in the
locked personal motor vehicle or in the locked compartment on a motorcycle.
, The firearm must remain unloaded at all times.
All and any ammunition must be stored and locked in a separate storage compartment.
x The firearm must be secured with a trigger lock or equivalent.
The employee's vehicle must remain locked at all times unless the employee is in or near the
vehicle.
x Under no circumstances may an employee remove his firearm from his/her vehicle while the
vehicle is in the company parking lot or other parking space provided by the Company.
·Firearms are not allowed in a sterile area, such as an AOA, of an airport or facility.
x Firearms are never allowed in company owned or issued vehicles.
· The Company may discipline an employee for failing to follow company and local policy with
regard to stored and transported firearms. Failure to comply with the company policy may
subject an employee to corrective action up to and including termination of employment. If you
have any questions, please consult your manager.
The Company may periodically check to determine if any vehicle parked on company property or
other parking spaces provided by the Company is locked and that firearms are kept out of plain view.
Any vehicle containing firearms not kept out of plain view, or any other violation of this policy, will be
reported. If management finds or learns of any violation of this policy, an investigation will be
initiated to determine if the firearm in the car, and the storage of the firearm, is compliant with local
policy.

 

[BigHoss]

They are just trying to "hurt" the spirit of "law abiding Texans"...IMHO...

But, their place...their rules...

 

[Rum Runner]

They are trying to inconvenience their employees as much as possible while still complying with the law.

Their business, their rules. Don't like it - don't work for them or fly their airline.

Welcome.

 

[txinvestigator]

The law did not give you any right or priviledge. The law, in the Texas Labor Code, places certain restrictions on employers.

Jaxx, it appears to me that AA is in complete compliance with the new law. As an employee if they demand to seach your vehicle while parked on AA property and you decline, they can terminate you.

 

[txinvestigator]

They are just trying to "hurt" the spirit of "law abiding Texans"...IMHO...

Keep the gun out of sight, your vehicle locked...and since the Castle Doctrine applies to your vehicle, as long as the first two are done...there'd never be any issues...again, just my 2 cents...

The Castle Doctrine has nothing to do with where you may carry or posses a firearm. It made changes to the use of force laws and the civil code.

 

[barstoolguru]

there are some nice lockboxes out there. there are other places you can't carry a firearm in so you will have to leave it behind so having
a lock box is a plus. their co their rules

 

[BigHoss]

You are correct, I think I may have not had enough Mtn. Dew when I wrote that...it's gone now!

The Castle Doctrine has nothing to do with where you may carry or posses a firearm. It made changes to the use of force laws and the civil code.

 

[txinvestigator]

You are correct, I think I may have not had enough Mtn. Dew when I wrote that...it's gone now!

Man, I haven't Mountian Dew in forever. I think I'll go buy some

 

[BigHoss]

Oh man...it's GOOD STUFF! ~Classic!

Man, I haven't Mountian Dew in forever. I think I'll go buy some

 

[Jaxx]

OK sorry but the new Parking Lot law has nothing to do with the Castle Doc. those are two diffrent things. Not sure of the exact number but it was a house bill that Perry just signed and it went into effect on Sept 1. That law specifically allows you to keep your gun in your car at work but I am afraid that the people that say AA is within their rights to add all their own rules for that may be correct.

However one thing I am not so certain of is AA's right to search your car without reason. My understanding is that even police cannot search your car without permission, reason, or arresting you. I cannot imagine that an imployer could simply demand to search your car. I would really like to hear from someone that knows the law here like a lawyer or police officer.

Thanks

PS +1 on the Dew.

 

[Rum Runner]

If they can legally test your urine, why can't they search you vehicle. Really the only thing an employer can't do is discriminate on the basis of sex, race, etc. So unless they are only searching the cars of white Christians, I don't see the problem.

Edit: Other than the problem of them obviously being against the lawful carry of firearms and making it as onerous as possible. You don't have to work for them or fly their airlines if you don't like their policies.

 

[txinvestigator]

OK sorry but the new Parking Lot law has nothing to do with the Castle Doc. those are two diffrent things. Not sure of the exact number but it was a house bill that Perry just signed and it went into effect on Sept 1. That law specifically allows you to keep your gun in your car at work

No, the law specifically addresses restrictions placed on employers regarding policies they may have regarding firearms kept by employees in vehicles on parking lots owned by the employer. It does not give YOU any right or priviledge.

but I am afraid that the people that say AA is within their rights to add all their own rules for that may be correct.

I will show the law below and comment specifically why AA is within the law.

However one thing I am not so certain of is AA's right to search your car without reason. My understanding is that even police cannot search your car without permission, reason, or arresting you. I cannot imagine that an imployer could simply demand to search your car. I would really like to hear from someone that knows the law here like a lawyer or police officer.

Thanks

The US Constitution Bill of Rights protects you from unreasonable searches and seizures from the government. It does not affect private entities. As a condition of employment, your employer may require that you submit to a search of your person and property at any time. You do not have to submit, but if you refuse then your employer may terminate you.

Here is the actual Parking Lot Law. It is codified into the Texas Labor Code

SUBCHAPTERG.RESTRICTIONS ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE
	TRANSPORTATION OR STORAGE OF CERTAIN FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION
	Sec.52.061.RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO
	OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer
	may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a
	concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
	who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully
	possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or
	ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked,
	privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or
	other parking area the employer provides for employees.
	Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:
	(1)authorize a person who holds a license to carry a
	concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
	who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully
	possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any
	property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is
	prohibited by state or federal law; or
	(2) apply to:
	(A)a vehicle owned or leased by a public or
	private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of
	the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to
	transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the
	employee's duties;
	(B) a school district;
	(C)an open-enrollment charter school, as
	defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
	(D)a private school, as defined by Section
	22.081, Education Code;
	(E)property owned or controlled by a person,
	other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil,
	gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting
	the possession of firearms on the property; or
	(F)property owned or leased by a chemical
	manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under
	Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary
	business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or
	transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials,
	except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a
	concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
	and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by
	law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a
	parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer
	provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted
	area:
	(i) that contains the physical plant;
	(ii) that is not open to the public; and
	(iii)the ingress into which is constantly
	monitored by security personnel.
	(b)Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from
	prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed
	handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who
	otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm
	the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the
	premises of the employer's business. In this subsection,
	"premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal
	Code.
	Sec.52.063.IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. (a)Except in
	cases of gross negligence, a public or private employer, or the
	employer's principal, officer, director, employee, or agent, is not
	liable in a civil action for personal injury, death, property
	damage, or any other damages resulting from or arising out of an
	occurrence involving a firearm or ammunition that the employer is
	required to allow on the employer's property under this subchapter.
	(b)The presence of a firearm or ammunition on an employer's
	property under the authority of this subchapter does not by itself
	constitute a failure by the employer to provide a safe workplace.
	(c)For purposes of this section, a public or private
	employer, or the employer's principal, officer, director,
	employee, or agent, does not have a duty:
	(1) to patrol, inspect, or secure:
	(A)any parking lot, parking garage, or other
	parking area the employer provides for employees; or
	(B)any privately owned motor vehicle located in
	a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area described by
	Paragraph (A); or
	(2)to investigate, confirm, or determine an
	employee's compliance with laws related to the ownership or
	possession of a firearm or ammunition or the transportation and
	storage of a firearm or ammunition.
	Sec.52.064.CONSTRUCTION OF PROVISION RELATING TO IMMUNITY
	FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. Section 52.063 does not limit or alter the
	personal liability of:
	(1)an individual who causes harm or injury by using a
	firearm or ammunition;
	(2)an individual who aids, assists, or encourages
	another individual to cause harm or injury by using a firearm or
	ammunition; or
	(3)an employee who transports or stores a firearm or
	ammunition on the property of the employee's employer but who fails
	to comply with the requirements of Section 52.061.
	SECTION 2. Section 411.203, Government Code, is amended to
	read as follows:
	Sec. 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS. This subchapter does
	not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private
	employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter
	from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business.
	In this section, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section
	46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.
	SECTION 3. The change in law made by this Act applies only
	to a cause of action that accrues on or after the effective date of
	this Act. A cause of action that accrues before that date is
	governed by the law as it existed immediately before the effective
	date of this Act, and that law is continued in effect for that
	purpose.

Notice the law (the part I highlighted in red)does not restrict the employer from mandating the condition of the weapon.

 

[M. Sage]

The big problem I have with it is the trigger lock part. You can tell whoever wrote that policy knows dick about firearms, because trigger locks are not a safe way to secure a firearm.

 

[Texan2]

I searched my car for Mountain Dew but came up empty.....but I guess that s not what this thread is about? I am fortunate that my employer doesn't care about bringing a gun to work and leaving it in your car. AA feels otherwise and seems to be within their rights.

 

[BigHoss]

Funny...I'm still sipping on mine...like coffee!

I am thankful that I work for an Architect firm with most of us carrying guns on us...rifles brought into the office a lot during hunting season...and mounted animals in a lot of the offices...but, that's why I left the DFW area a few years back and headed back home to the good ole East Texas Piney Woods!

(Sorry for any thread jack)

I searched my car for Mountain Dew but came up empty.....but I guess that s not what this thread is about? I am fortunate that my employer doesn't care about bringing a gun to work and leaving it in your car. AA feels otherwise and seems to be withing their rights.

 

[Acera]

So if an employer mandated that all guns entering their property must be fully disassembled, all major parts stored in separate locked containers, and the firing pin stored inside the spare tire (under pressure) it would be within their legal rights, and they could fire you on the spot if found to be in violation.


In the case of AA, I am sure that at least one of their corporate lawyers looks at all pieces of employee handbook, company policies and procedures, etc. before they are published. It would be stupid to leave such things to mid-level HR staffer. They probably have extremely defensible positions on all of those things.

These last few weeks have shown me how messed up or laws are and how easy it is to get the wrong impression from taking them at face value, and not reading them thoroughly.

 

[Bithabus]

Lots of ways for anti-gun employers to get around this law. Remember all it does is create a cause of action.

 

[Renegade]

Hopefully this will be like the Motorist Protection Act - We pass a simple law and the antis try to find loopholes to avoid kit. Then we come back in a later session with a much more pro-gun law and flip the finger at them. I do not see AA winning any lawsuits if they fire a gun owner who is in complete 100% compliance with the law, but does not meet there policy 100%.

 

[txinvestigator]

Hopefully this will be like the Motorist Protection Act - We pass a simple law and the antis try to find loopholes to avoid kit. Then we come back in a later session with a much more pro-gun law and flip the finger at them. I do not see AA winning any lawsuits if they fire a gun owner who is in complete 100% compliance with the law, but does not meet there policy 100%.

Remember, it is not employees who can or cannot be in compliance with this law, it is the employer who either is or is not in compliance.


AA is within the law on this one.

 

[shortround]

Just another nail in the AA coffin.

Fly South West Airlines; No baggage fees.

Be well.