Great perspective about the "militarization" of our police

[Professor]

It seems the thread has dropped down a rabbit hole to some extent - admittedly an important and interesting rabbit hole. Just as an aside, I briefly met the author of the article once and I've known his dad for a couple of decades. They are as freedom-loving as you can get. From what I have seen and heard, we would be extremely well served if all LEOs were as thoughtful as Doug. As a former SWAT member myself from back in the very early days of the concept, there were definitely times I would have welcomed protective and tactical gear with open arms. Nice article, Doug.

 

[Alex23]

The police are like every other professional out there. Except most of them don't even have a college degree. And some of them could barely rate a 100 point score in an IQ test.

And I have met the local head of our Tactical-WMD-Terra squad with a bunch of other citizens. And we've seen their toys, which are frankly ridiculous. My tag says Dallas but I'm actually in a town somewhere near Dallas.

Lt. Tactical, as I call him, said to me he would do 'whatever is necessary to ensure public safety'. And whilst he 'understands about concerns about the constitution' his first duty is to protect the public and ensure officer safety.

What he means is that he will happily use the constitution as toilet paper.

When asked whether he would enforce public vaccinations in a suspected outbreak of SmallPox using Watertown SWAT tactics he said 'whatever is necessary'.

He was sporting a very nice shiny Dan Wesson, a sharp suit, and a nice pair of shiny Wilson Combat Mags though.

He's basically a better looking version than Vic Mackie. At least Mackie lived in a city with a serious violent crime rate. Way out here we get 0 to 1 murders PER YEAR. But hey, we have playgirl soldiers rocking serious hardware. They're not trained, they do NOT respect he constitution, and well...

Greatest Vic Mackey Quotes (The Shield) - YouTube

 

[stdreb27]

The police are like every other professional out there. Except most of them don't even have a college degree. And some of them could barely rate a 100 point score in an IQ test.

And I have met the local head of our Tactical-WMD-Terra squad with a bunch of other citizens. And we've seen their toys, which are frankly ridiculous. My tag says Dallas but I'm actually in a town somewhere near Dallas.

Lt. Tactical, as I call him, said to me he would do 'whatever is necessary to ensure public safety'. And whilst he 'understands about concerns about the constitution' his first duty is to protect the public and ensure officer safety.

What he means is that he will happily use the constitution as toilet paper.

When asked whether he would enforce public vaccinations in a suspected outbreak of SmallPox using Watertown SWAT tactics he said 'whatever is necessary'.

He was sporting a very nice shiny Dan Wesson, a sharp suit, and a nice pair of shiny Wilson Combat Mags though.

He's basically a better looking version than Vic Mackie. At least Mackie lived in a city with a serious violent crime rate. Way out here we get 0 to 1 murders PER YEAR. But hey, we have playgirl soldiers rocking serious hardware. They're not trained, they do NOT respect he constitution, and well...

Greatest Vic Mackey Quotes (The Shield) - YouTube

well on the flip side to this, if we have some well armed freedom loving sheriffs, might serve us well, if it ever came to government needing to be forcibly put in it's place...

 

[M. Sage]

I never said it did. Read my post again and you will see what I'm saying... Maybe.

No, he's only interested in seeing what he wants to see.

 

[Texan2]

The police are like every other professional out there. Except most of them don't even have a college degree. And some of them could barely rate a 100 point score in an IQ test.

And I have met the local head of our Tactical-WMD-Terra squad with a bunch of other citizens. And we've seen their toys, which are frankly ridiculous. My tag says Dallas but I'm actually in a town somewhere near Dallas.

Lt. Tactical, as I call him, said to me he would do 'whatever is necessary to ensure public safety'. And whilst he 'understands about concerns about the constitution' his first duty is to protect the public and ensure officer safety.

What he means is that he will happily use the constitution as toilet paper.

When asked whether he would enforce public vaccinations in a suspected outbreak of SmallPox using Watertown SWAT tactics he said 'whatever is necessary'.

He was sporting a very nice shiny Dan Wesson, a sharp suit, and a nice pair of shiny Wilson Combat Mags though.

He's basically a better looking version than Vic Mackie. At least Mackie lived in a city with a serious violent crime rate. Way out here we get 0 to 1 murders PER YEAR. But hey, we have playgirl soldiers rocking serious hardware. They're not trained, they do NOT respect he constitution, and well...

Greatest Vic Mackey Quotes (The Shield) - YouTube

1. A college degree is the measure of competence? Regardless many police officers are college educated, not that it makes a difference.
2. Please show some evidence that officers couldn't score a 100 on an IQ test.
3. I would guess you would be more supportive of their "toys" if they were needed and used to save you or your family. Can't count how many time I have heard, "Does somebody got to die before we do something?" Then when we prepare they scream, "We dont need THAT!"
4. Some mighty big assumptions in saying that your police friend will "use the Constitution as toilet paper"
5. What does his carry weapon or choice of mags have to do with anything? He has a fine gun and that is a BAD thing???

Seems like a pretty emotional analysis based on opinion.

 

[Texan2]

No, he's only interested in seeing what he wants to see.

So are others on this board....in fact on this very thread.

 

[rlw454]

if they support the Constitution I support them/ don't care what they carry

 

[Texan2]

Basic logic would dictate that the second amendment is practically useless if the government is better armed than the citizenry.

While I have no issue with the public owning whatever they wish, "basic logic" does not dictate this, nor does any case law or statute law even come close to such a bizarre conclusion.
Not the police's fault someone cant afford an M16 or a helicopter. Just because everyone CAN'T afford one doesn't mean the police shouldn't have them.
Citizenry has never been as well equipt as the government. They weren't in 1775 and they haven't ever been since then. You don't need to be as well equipt to accomplish your goal. In many areas of Texas LE isn't as well equipt as criminals.

Its not the hardware thats important, its the software.

 

[Texan2]

if they support the Constitution I support them/ don't care what they carry

Agreed.

 

[M. Sage]

While I have no issue with the public owning whatever they wish, "basic logic" does not dictate this, nor does any case law or statute law even come close to such a bizarre conclusion.
Not the police's fault someone cant afford an M16 or a helicopter. Just because everyone CAN'T afford one doesn't mean the police shouldn't have them.
Citizenry has never been as well equipt as the government. They weren't in 1775 and they haven't ever been since then. You don't need to be as well equipt to accomplish your goal. In many areas of Texas LE isn't as well equipt as criminals.

Its not the hardware thats important, its the software.

Which government are you talking about in 1775? If you're talking about the one being formed by the Continental Congress, then yeah... the people were definitely a lot better equipped in 1775.

Also, before you make veiled accusations at me, you might want to read some of my posts on some of this stuff. Your paranoia is keeping you from seeing things clearly.

 

[Texan2]

I've been in very few drug houses during my life. (More than I'd like, but still only a few.) Thus, while I've seen some of this stuff up close I certainly don't know all the tricks. Pictures would be welcome.

I have some others on a disk somewhere, but these are the types of barricades that make crashing a wall happen.

I will look through some CDs I have at the office for more pics

 

[Vaquero]

College educated?

High brow much?

 

[majormadmax]

No, he's only interested in seeing what he wants to see.

What a hypocritical thing to say, especially from you...

 

[majormadmax]

Also, before you make veiled accusations at me, you might want to read some of my posts on some of this stuff. Your paranoia is keeping you from seeing things clearly.

Again, that is a laughable statement considering the source!

 

[stdreb27]

While I have no issue with the public owning whatever they wish, "basic logic" does not dictate this, nor does any case law or statute law even come close to such a bizarre conclusion.
Not the police's fault someone cant afford an M16 or a helicopter. Just because everyone CAN'T afford one doesn't mean the police shouldn't have them.
Citizenry has never been as well equipt as the government. They weren't in 1775 and they haven't ever been since then. You don't need to be as well equipt to accomplish your goal. In many areas of Texas LE isn't as well equipt as criminals.

Its not the hardware thats important, its the software.

So you don't think it is logical to have the gatekeepers (us) better armed than whatever we are supposed to be guarding against, government?

I can't walk into the store an buy a new m4. The police can. If I had the money I can't walk to the apache dealer and pick up an apache helicopter with enough firepower to level a city block. The Feds can.

It's fundamentally backwards from the way our founders intended... Case law be damned.

 

[Kennydale]

I agree with Wild Bill.

 

[M. Sage]

What a hypocritical thing to say, especially from you...

Really? Show me my posts that prove your point.

You've got 24 hours, because I'm sick of this shit.

 

[Younggun]

So you don't think it is logical to have the gatekeepers (us) better armed than whatever we are supposed to be guarding against, government?

I can't walk into the store an buy a new m4. The police can. If I had the money I can't walk to the apache dealer and pick up an apache helicopter with enough firepower to level a city block. The Feds can.

It's fundamentally backwards from the way our founders intended... Case law be damned.

Actually, with enough money you can buy a helicopter and outfit it with whatever kind of missiles, rockets, and machine guns you want. It's just prohibitively expensive.

Texan2 seems to be fully supportive of removing the regulation which has driven up the cost of the big boy toys.

I have to say I pretty much agree with him. It's not about limiting what the sheriff can have, it's about getting rid of the limits and taxes on what we can have.

A modern tank will still be out of reach of 99% of Americans but at least basic rifles won't have artificially inflated price tags.

It could also be argued the that all of the gov agencies combined are woefully outgunned by the civilian population simply based on the numbers.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Alright, this one is going nowhere fast.