Harley Davidson's whining

[LOCKHART]

Well, I see Harley is moving some of its manufacturing to Thailand, of all places! Do they still consider themselves to be "American" made? I notice they didn't cry back in 1983 when Reagan put huge tariffs on Jap bikes over a certain displacement! Piss on Harley Davidson. If I had the money to buy a way overpriced, antique design, I would just buy one of Britain's version of a Triumph Bonneville. If I wanted a MODERN v-twin, I would buy an Indian! Pizz on these whining byotches!

 

[majormadmax]

I was told many years ago that there are more American-made parts in the Honda Goldwing (made in Marysville, Ohio) than there were in a Harley-Davidson.

But honestly, there are few large companies that aren't international. The current Chevrolet Camaro is assembled in Ontario, Canada; but the Toyota Camry is made in America.

Harleys are already made from a plethora of foreign parts, just assembled in this country.

Pretty much these days the claim that something is "American made" is about as accurate as "military grade." It essentially is a marketing term, and little else...

 

[majormadmax]

By the way, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but around 80% of current Triumph motorcycles are being built in three factories in Thailand...

https://riders.drivemag.com/features/triumph-motorcycles-thailand-factory-visit

 

[pronstar]

Harley has been planning to move jobs out of the US for quite some time, and they announced these plans well over a year ago. Which means plans were in the works for at least a year prior.

This has everything to do with one thing: sales

Unlike the rest of the economy, Harley sales in the US never recovered after the recession. They stayed flat.

Prior to the recession, sales were at all-time highs, and they ramped up manufacturing to meet demand.

Demand has softened significantly, isn’t trending to go up anytime soon, they have idle manufacturing capacity, and they’re bleeding cash.

The writing has been on the wall for quite some time. They’re just looking for a convenient excuse because the truth doesn’t appeal to their flag-waving base.

They have little choice but to offshore manufacturing. And they been planning it for years.




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[Ole Cowboy]

Harley has been planning to move jobs out of the US for quite some time, and they announced these plans well over a year ago. Which means plans were in the works for at least a year prior.

This has everything to do with one thing: sales

Unlike the rest of the economy, Harley sales in the US never recovered after the recession. They stayed flat.

Prior to the recession, sales were at all-time highs, and they ramped up manufacturing to meet demand.

Demand has softened significantly, isn’t trending to go up anytime soon, they have idle manufacturing capacity, and they’re bleeding cash.

The writing has been on the wall for quite some time. They’re just looking for a convenient excuse because the truth doesn’t appeal to their flag-waving base.

They have little choice but to offshore manufacturing. And they been planning it for years.




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I see you GET IT!

 

[toddnjoyce]

I see you GET IT!

As a motorcyclist, here’s what I get.

If HD wants to stay in the MC business, more than offshoring production has to occur.

In general, the entire MC industry has not returned to pre-2008 levels. Neither have many other ‘luxury’, ‘recreation’ or ‘hobby’ industries. Instead, new ones have cropped up.

I won’t be surprised to see the Motor Company die before 2030.

 

[innominate]

I think HD built/branded themselves into a corner. The only things they can build are expensive cruisers and baggers. If they build anything else their core customers don't want it. They had a great thing going for a while but the worm has turned. A few yrs ago I went on a ride that started at a Harley dealership. I saw a used soft tail classic. It looked great from 10'. Up close it had pitting in the chrome, the paint and leather were not in great shape. It was around 3yrs old iirc. I asked how much. 17k. I haven't looked at another Harley since.

 

[pronstar]

I think HD built/branded themselves into a corner. The only things they can build are expensive cruisers and baggers. If they build anything else their core customers don't want it. They had a great thing going for a while but the worm has turned. A few yrs ago I went on a ride that started at a Harley dealership. I saw a used soft tail classic. It looked great from 10'. Up close it had pitting in the chrome, the paint and leather were not in great shape. It was around 3yrs old iirc. I asked how much. 17k. I haven't looked at another Harley since.

Yup, and those core customers are the problem - HD is too reliant on them, and it’s an aging demographic.

They don’t appeal to younger folks, who are much too young to ascribe to the “Easy Rider” (the movie) ethos.

Those younger folks are also the first American generation who will earn less than their parents, which puts a $30k bike even further out of reach.

The boating, RV and especially SxS industries are booming, so these younger folks, and folks of all ages, are spending money on recreational toys...just not Harleys.

It is a bit ironic that HD is complaining about tariffs, when the company was largely saved by tariffs three decades ago.

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[Brains]

I was told many years ago that there are more American-made parts in the Honda Goldwing (made in Marysville, Ohio) than there were in a Harley-Davidson.

But honestly, there are few large companies that aren't international. The current Chevrolet Camaro is assembled in Ontario, Canada; but the Toyota Camry is made in America.

Harleys are already made from a plethora of foreign parts, just assembled in this country.

Pretty much these days the claim that something is "American made" is about as accurate as "military grade." It essentially is a marketing term, and little else...

Actually the current (6th Gen.) Camaro is made in Lansing, MI. They started the move back when they shuttered the St. Therese plant in Canada (end of the 4th Gens) and the conversion of the Oshawa plant at the end of the 5th Gen run.

 

[Moonpie]

Once owned a couple of Harley motorcycles.

Never again.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Yup, and those core customers are the problem - HD is too reliant on them, and it’s an aging demographic.

They don’t appeal to younger folks, who are much too young to ascribe to the “Easy Rider” (the movie) ethos.

Those younger folks are also the first American generation who will earn less than their parents, which puts a $30k bike even further out of reach.

The boating, RV and especially SxS industries are booming, so these younger folks, and folks of all ages, are spending money on recreational toys...just not Harleys.

It is a bit ironic that HD is complaining about tariffs, when the company was largely saved by tariffs three decades ago.

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I'm in the 40's demographic. My older brother had friends who rode Harleys. Never got into them. My impressions are the AMC years of owning Harley. Leaking crap bikes. I know they've changed.

While today's Harleys have a 70% original value rate with a low reliability factor.....


I stopped by the dealer today to look at this,

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product Lines/Cycles/Products/GSX-S1000/2017/GSXS1000.aspx

I'm not buying a harley. In the movie Easy Riders. I would have been one of the guys in the truck. Not on the Harley. I also rooted for Cobra to win on the GI Joe cartoons.

1000cc Suzuki 4cylinder goodness compared to bandanas, gay looking black leather chaps and a revised V-twin from around 1903...

It's not tariffs keeping me off a harley. It's a bunch of other stuff.

 

[sharkey]

They were moving some stuff to Thailand before Trump's tariff but I think the cycle market is kinda kaput in the US, especially for 25K cruisers. Millennials do not seem to like to ride.

Me, I will continue to ride my VFR and Street Triple

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[grasshopperglock]

They were moving some stuff to Thailand before Trump's tariff but I think the cycle market is kinda kaput in the US, especially for 25K cruisers. Millennials do not seem to like to ride.

Me, I will continue to ride my VFR and Street Triple

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Millennials love to ride. They prefer to ride sport bikes to grandpa's harley. They are all over the place around here. 18-24yo.

 

[seeker_two]

I thought HD only made purses and other gaudily-logoed leather goods......

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[mdf9183]

I used to have a Zundapp.

 

[innominate]

A guy was giving me grief for not riding an American bike. I mentioned he should throw away everything he was wearing. Harley branded from head to toe. Not a stitch Made in the USA.

 

[grasshopperglock]

At least 60% of craigslist is used Harleys. About 10% have higher mileage above 15k. The majority are super low miles. 2k-5k. Ad after ad. Anything below $4000 is junk. You're welcome to buy one of the $16k top of the line jobbers.

There's absolutely no shortage of low mile Harleys. Lots of folks buy them but never ride them. All the Hondas, Suzuki, Yamahas have been rode hard.

So there's that. Tariffs isn't Harleys problem.

 

[Davetex]

Ha, I was just going to say the used HD market is about as saturated as the AR15 market. You'd have to be crazy to buy new these days.

I recently bought a used Honda NC700x for 5K and I'm loving that bike. Smooth as silk, 70 mpg, rock solid dependable, it literally sounds and feels like it has an electric motor at 3000 - 5000 rpm.

Why would I want to buy an oil leaking, vibrating, high maintenance $17,000 +/- noise machine.

 

[BRD@66]

UJM vs HD ha!
You guys sound like 1911 vs Glocksters

 

[Davetex]

UJM vs HD ha!
You guys sound like 1911 vs Glocksters

Ha, you're right.